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I would assume it is contract based and thus falls already under contract law. You could start a civil case. There is no need to make something illegal that alr

by mpol 4y ago

I would assume it is contract based and thus falls already under contract law. You could start a civil case. There is no need to make something illegal that already has ways to get resolved. Part of the problem in the US is that a civil courtcase is a horrible thing. At least in Europe the loser pays the court costs of the winner. That already makes this kind of behaviour less likely. In the US you have to spend lots of money on a court case and they will just drag it out and bleed you dry. The court system is designed to protect the rich minority from the poor majority. Also, do not throw away the baby with the bathwater. A shop owner should have ways to get rid of a bad customer. And yes, even if it is just based on a face that you don't like.

dessant 4y ago
Once a platform is past a certain size, they should no longer be allowed to permanently ban a person without due process. See for example the people whose lives have been affected because they were banned from Facebook for absolutely no reason, and they could no longer access Facebook Marketplace. I think it's very dangerous to create a new type of second-class citizen that can no longer access certain online services, because naive algorithms were allowed to go rampant, without any checks and balances.
- shagie 4y ago
  Unless there is fraud checks involved, I don't think the person's account is banned. It may be suspended and in which case this can be rectified by adding a payment method and upgrading the account from the free tier to a paid tier. They can still access oracle cloud services... just not for free. As a note, think about the egress charges they were racking up (on a free tier) by doing a mongodump for five hours. The free tier is meant as a teaser for migrating to a paid account - not a perpetual production workload.
  - onli 4y ago
    Not for 5 hours. Five hours ago. Author is talking about a "huge" database, but then mentioned 1GB, which is tiny. In that case there were no significant egress charges.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
    egress is usually metered.. Oracle could simply put a limit on their free egress. no need to ban
  - LadyCailin 4y ago
    The support case says: > Even if I try to upgrade and manage payment it says I don't have access to perform that operation So no.
    - shagie 4y ago
      That customer support chat is from someone else from April 25th. It is not from the blog poster. There is no indication that the blog poster communicated with Oracle Support in that blog post. Everything from Oracle support in the blog post is from other people and paraphrased Q&A on the Oracle Community Support forum (where the support became a private correspondence with the person rather than out in the open). At the very end: > Q: Did you create a thread in Oracle Community forum? > A: Yes, no answers. And digging into the FAQ for the free tier... > Does Oracle Cloud Free Tier include service level agreements (SLAs) and technical support? > Oracle Cloud Free Tier does not include SLAs. Community support through our forums is available to all customers. Customers using only Always Free resources are not eligible for Oracle Support. Limited support is available for Oracle Cloud Free Tier with Free Trial credits. After you use all of your credits or after your trial period ends (whichever comes first), you must upgrade to a paid account to access Oracle Support. If you choose not to upgrade and continue to use Always Free Services, you will not be eligible to raise a service request in My Oracle Support.
seanhunter 4y ago
> You could start a civil case Good luck winning any kind of lawsuit against Oracle also. Their legal dept (like their sales dept) is famously aggressive and well-staffed.
- AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
  https://palisadecompliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/oracle-org-chart-300x195.png https://palisadecompliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/or...
  - btown 4y ago
    See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246
- hodgesrm 4y ago
  > Good luck winning any kind of lawsuit against Oracle also. They don't always win, but it can be hard to see if the case does not go to trial. Settlements typically include confidentiality provisions to prevent publication of the result. [0] [0] https://www.upcounsel.com/confidential-settlement-agreement https://www.upcounsel.com/confidential-settlement-agreement
- bastardoperator 4y ago
  You just bypass their legal department by filing a small claims case. Do it in CA, you can sue for up to 10K in damages. A valet crashed my car, I sued for diminished value for 9999.99 dollars. Their attorney told me I would never see a penny, told me they would move for change of venue and tie me up in civil court. I went to court, won, they appealed, I won again. About 5 days later I had a check in the mail for 9999.99. I paid 100 bucks to file and serve them through the police department and had to take two days off, but I won and it was kind of easy. They can bring an attorney to represent them, didn't seem to help them in my case with zero legal expertise.
- dingleberry420 4y ago
  > Their legal dept (like their sales dept) is famously aggressive Just like their support, apparently!
yieldcrv 4y ago
Many consumer protection laws streamline resolution specifically to unbog the courts.
akudha 4y ago
People underestimate the cost, time and other resources associated with a court case. Especially the stress. My employer (a tiny company) sued another company because they owed them a bunch of money. We are in the right, legally and ethically. The amount of time, stress and money it takes to sue someone, even if you are 100% in the right, even when the law is 100% on your side - it is insane. The only real winners are the lawyers. It is better to just avoid companies with shitty service than go to the courts.
kube-system 4y ago
There is no valid contract here. Consideration is one of the elements of a valid contract.

by mpol 4y ago

dessant 4y ago

Once a platform is past a certain size, they should no longer be allowed to permanently ban a person without due process. See for example the people whose lives have been affected because they were banned from Facebook for absolutely no reason, and they could no longer access Facebook Marketplace. I think it's very dangerous to create a new type of second-class citizen that can no longer access certain online services, because naive algorithms were allowed to go rampant, without any checks and balances.

shagie 4y ago
Unless there is fraud checks involved, I don't think the person's account is banned. It may be suspended and in which case this can be rectified by adding a payment method and upgrading the account from the free tier to a paid tier. They can still access oracle cloud services... just not for free. As a note, think about the egress charges they were racking up (on a free tier) by doing a mongodump for five hours. The free tier is meant as a teaser for migrating to a paid account - not a perpetual production workload.
- onli 4y ago
  Not for 5 hours. Five hours ago. Author is talking about a "huge" database, but then mentioned 1GB, which is tiny. In that case there were no significant egress charges.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
  egress is usually metered.. Oracle could simply put a limit on their free egress. no need to ban
- LadyCailin 4y ago
  The support case says: > Even if I try to upgrade and manage payment it says I don't have access to perform that operation So no.
  - shagie 4y ago
    That customer support chat is from someone else from April 25th. It is not from the blog poster. There is no indication that the blog poster communicated with Oracle Support in that blog post. Everything from Oracle support in the blog post is from other people and paraphrased Q&A on the Oracle Community Support forum (where the support became a private correspondence with the person rather than out in the open). At the very end: > Q: Did you create a thread in Oracle Community forum? > A: Yes, no answers. And digging into the FAQ for the free tier... > Does Oracle Cloud Free Tier include service level agreements (SLAs) and technical support? > Oracle Cloud Free Tier does not include SLAs. Community support through our forums is available to all customers. Customers using only Always Free resources are not eligible for Oracle Support. Limited support is available for Oracle Cloud Free Tier with Free Trial credits. After you use all of your credits or after your trial period ends (whichever comes first), you must upgrade to a paid account to access Oracle Support. If you choose not to upgrade and continue to use Always Free Services, you will not be eligible to raise a service request in My Oracle Support.

seanhunter 4y ago

> You could start a civil case Good luck winning any kind of lawsuit against Oracle also. Their legal dept (like their sales dept) is famously aggressive and well-staffed.

AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
https://palisadecompliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/oracle-org-chart-300x195.png https://palisadecompliance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/or...
- btown 4y ago
  See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5170246
hodgesrm 4y ago
> Good luck winning any kind of lawsuit against Oracle also. They don't always win, but it can be hard to see if the case does not go to trial. Settlements typically include confidentiality provisions to prevent publication of the result. [0] [0] https://www.upcounsel.com/confidential-settlement-agreement https://www.upcounsel.com/confidential-settlement-agreement
bastardoperator 4y ago
You just bypass their legal department by filing a small claims case. Do it in CA, you can sue for up to 10K in damages. A valet crashed my car, I sued for diminished value for 9999.99 dollars. Their attorney told me I would never see a penny, told me they would move for change of venue and tie me up in civil court. I went to court, won, they appealed, I won again. About 5 days later I had a check in the mail for 9999.99. I paid 100 bucks to file and serve them through the police department and had to take two days off, but I won and it was kind of easy. They can bring an attorney to represent them, didn't seem to help them in my case with zero legal expertise.
dingleberry420 4y ago
> Their legal dept (like their sales dept) is famously aggressive Just like their support, apparently!

yieldcrv 4y ago

Many consumer protection laws streamline resolution specifically to unbog the courts.

akudha 4y ago

People underestimate the cost, time and other resources associated with a court case. Especially the stress. My employer (a tiny company) sued another company because they owed them a bunch of money. We are in the right, legally and ethically. The amount of time, stress and money it takes to sue someone, even if you are 100% in the right, even when the law is 100% on your side - it is insane. The only real winners are the lawyers. It is better to just avoid companies with shitty service than go to the courts.

kube-system 4y ago

There is no valid contract here. Consideration is one of the elements of a valid contract.