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I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be. Key summary: > "Today Yale joined peer institut
by tomrod 4y ago
I didn't realize college admissions' affirmative action had reached SCOTUS. I wonder what the outcome will be.
Key summary:
> "Today Yale joined peer institutions in stating emphatically that student diversity is essential to the missions of American universities and promotes educational excellence for all students,” President Peter Salovey said. “Our amicus curiae brief makes clear that the way we consider race and ethnicity as part of individualized applicant review is crucial to achieving a richly diverse academic environment that enhances students’ educational experiences and maximizes their future success. Yale stands firm in supporting universities’ established right to compose incoming classes that are diverse along many dimensions and in its commitment to enrolling students from all walks of life."
I wish I had more understanding of the topic. Diversity seems to have two dimensions to it: (1) diversity of thought, (2) diversity of background. Diversity of background would seem to encourage more diversity of thought, which I think is typically desirable, but has this been proven out/quantified? Conversely, governance seems to be a lot harder (i.e. require more authoritarian approaches to get goals accomplished) where there is diversity of thought. Please note I'm not making a normative statement here.
- ceejayoz 4y agoWith this court? I don't wonder.
- mbg721 4y agoIf a conservative Supreme Court were really drunk with power, don't you think the Ivy League institutions would have changed more than this?
- Invictus0 4y agoThe Ivy leagues today are anything but diverse in thought, this should be obvious. What actually exists is a repressive liberal orthodoxy, and no dissent is tolerated. I ought to expand on this since this comment will surely be controversial. I make no comment on which view is right or wrong; but suppose the conservative view were favored, and any disagreement with the ideology got your fired from your job, publicly shamed, made a pariah, etc.? Would you feel comfortable sharing dissenting opinions? There is no open debate, no sense that truer speech will naturally win out over disfavored speech, no sense that people have the right to say and think unorthodox beliefs.
- tomrod 4y agoThis is pretty far removed from my direct experience with Ivy League alumni and professors (coauthors, colleagues, coworkers). It is a common refrain though. Elements of conservatism are sometimes viewed as being eschewed when they are ideologically based and the evidence doesn't support claims. But this is true generally and a consequence of the academic incentive structure where there are never enough resources to fund. On the other hand, academic malfeasance does occur (e.g. Alzheimers research in recent decades), so the system is far from perfect, but the risky/rewarding incentive is to absolutely decry the current state as being completely wrong. Consider Nassim Taleb's popularization after the Great Recession as a great example, or earlier Paul Krugman's transaction cost theories.
- btilly 4y agoIt is not at all removed from my direct experience. (And I am, in fact, an Ivy League alumnus.) See https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.html https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.ht... for the shocking level of acceptance of Marxist ideas in the social sciences, despite a lack of anything resembling evidence for it. And a tremendous amount of evidence that attempts at implementing Marxism have done insane amounts of damage to the world.
- shkkmo 4y agoHow is 18% Marxists in the social sciences evidence for "a repressive liberal orthodoxy, and no dissent is tolerated"?
- xiande04 4y agoI think the goal of using race in admissions is more about giving disadvantaged people an advantage rather than increasing "diversity of thought".
- sanity31415 4y agoAssuming people are "disadvantaged" simply because of the color of their skin is a textbook example of "the soft bigotry of low expectations".
- tomrod 4y agoAs well as "redlining existed in the lifetimes of the student's parent's generation, limiting intergenerational wealth and transfer to a degree that, all else equal, limited the opportunities for that group in many more ways that other groups did not experience." Be sure to include the outcomes of racially motivated structural policies into your assessment and you will shortly recognize "the soft bigotry of low expectations" is a different metric altogether (one that PG has spoken on, where the average performance in-group is much higher than overall average, indicating you only hire cream of the crop from that group).
- TheMagicHorsey 4y agoYeah, but it leads to absurd results, where the black daughter of two doctors, with 500K+ in annual family income is given preferential treatment, while the Chinese-American son of a janitor is discriminated against.
- mbg721 4y agoBut he has privilege, and she doesn't.
- TheMagicHorsey 4y agoYeah, but why are Chinese considered privileged now, when before they were not?
- ser13 4y agoI recently listened to the 5-4 podcast episode "Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1" that covered the 2007 US Supreme Court decision. It discusses using race in public school choice and discusses two different interpretations of the 14th amendment. "If you take 14th Amendment, or have any sort of class that talks about desegregation in public schools, there are two different ways of thinking about the holding in Brown versus Board of Education. One is that Brown versus Board of Education is an anti-classification case, and the other is that it's an anti-subordination case." [1] As a member of the public with no background in law, I suspect that this distinction may be what SCOTUS will rule on in these upcoming cases. If you're interested in the topic and enjoy podcasts, I highly recommend this episode. [1] https://www.fivefourpod.com/episodes/parents-involved-in-community-schools-v-seattle-school-district-no-1/ https://www.fivefourpod.com/episodes/parents-involved-in-com...
- tomrod 4y agoThanks for the reference!
- news_to_me 4y agoI don't think it's possible to have meaningful diversity of thought without diversity of background. That spans many attributes—race, economic status, where you grew up, etc. Race is obviously an important one, given how much it changes many people's experiences and perceptions. I think diverse racial representation is important, but is maybe better viewed as an indicator of success rather than a metric to optimize. Especially at a university, diversity of thought and academic talent should be the primary factors (imo).
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rjbwork 4y agoI think I tend to agree. The place to put the thumb on the scales is pre-k-12, especially early on. If we look at purely merit metrics at the bottom of the funnel at university, then based on the approach these universities are taking, Asians will have the best merit metrics, and Blacks the worst. I fail to see how this could possibly promote a good social outcome. People are going to notice and stereotyping is going to kick in.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- shkkmo 4y agoIf they are truly looking for diversity of background, they can do that without race. If Yale focused on admitting smart, low income students they would have a much better diversity of backgrounds. > The median family income of a student from Yale is $192,600, and 69% come from the top 20 percent.
- s1artibartfast 4y agoI would be interested in seeing what the percent of students are from the bottom 20% of incomes
- belorn 4y ago