4 ms·

I wish they'd just get rid of dealerships already. For most households buying a vehicle is their second largest purchase. It is meant to be enjoyable/fun. But

I wish they'd just get rid of dealerships already. For most households buying a vehicle is their second largest purchase. It is meant to be enjoyable/fun. But dealerships have managed to make it very unfun/stressful/bad. And there's always "but what if you find the unicorn dealership?!" but frankly those are few and far between. If you talk to random people in the street 9/10 will have a negative dealership story. Dealerships do nothing to control price increases, and suggesting they do misunderstands the market forces. What controls prices is competition (i.e. other vehicles, from other manufacturers). All dealerships do is rent-seek in the middle. I'd like to know that if my next door neighbor and I buy the same vehicle, that we paid the same price, and had the same experience. Just open up "show rooms" that don't sell vehicles, then a website where you can order for home delivery for a fixed price. The whole "local jobs" argument would have more merit if dealerships weren't a toxic influence on local politics, and nobody is suggesting that manufacturers won't need to continue to offer local repair facilities for recalls and of course to staff these showrooms.

rasz 4y ago
but who will sell me my trucoat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs
bluedino 4y ago
It sucks not being able to go down to a lot and pick out a new car.
- Someone1234 4y ago
  It sucks going down to a lot to test drive a new car and being hassled by someone who often knows less about the vehicle than you, then your phone blowing up for weeks after. I'd prefer to go to a showroom, test drive, not be hassled because there's no commission on the line. Then go do that at several other manufacture's showrooms, then go home and make my final selection in peace with a web browser and my spouse. If this system becomes efficient there's no reason why the manufacturer cannot have an interstate warehouse Amazon style with some "next day delivery" vehicles. So you can either pick your bespoke configuration and wait [period] or get something in inventory for almost immediate delivery, but in both cases you're ordering via your browser/phone. Now instead of shopping each state dealership's inventory one by one, you're shopping all collective dealership's inventory together and getting an incredible buying experience.
  - bluedino 4y ago
    Do you want to visit these interstate warehouses to get your vehicle serviced as well?
    - namlem 4y ago
      Dealerships are not an efficient way to run repair shops either. Would be better if manufacturers just used repair certification for independent shops.
      - 14 4y ago
        Oh they are very efficient. Efficient at robbing people blind. I was going some work on a new gf car and asked when she last changed her spark plugs and she told me a couple years back at a hefty cost from the Honda dealership. I think it was close to $200. I can change them for the cost of the plugs so like $40. It is the easiest engine as well all plugs top and centre nothing buried way down the back of the engine like my parents s10 I want to change plugs on. It’s like a 15 minute job and requires no special tools.
    - voakbasda 4y ago
      No, I want a car that can be serviced myself, in my own garage. For those rare jobs that are bigger than I can handle myself, I want to be able to choose from any trusted local mechanic, without them having to buy a specific manufacturer's proprietary tools. Open standards, from parts to tools. I do not expect to get any of that with a new car, or even one made in the last couple of decades. That is why I will continue to maintain vehicles that were made before the turn of the century.
imchillyb 4y ago
> I wish they'd just get rid of dealerships already. @Someone1234 Dealerships are a direct result of our Federal Government stepping in to protect consumers. Vehicle manufacturers, before dealerships, would setup a lot to sell vehicles and then disappear several months later leaving citizens on the hook to attempt to resolve damages, repairs, or warranty issues. The US Federal Government had enough complaints from citizens across the country to propose dealerships as a resolution. These car lots would become responsible for repair and warranty issues directly acting in the place of manufacturers. In order to remove dealerships, one must first propose a valid remedy for these issues that dealerships are currently liable for.
- natpalmer1776 4y ago
  It's been long enough that perhaps the manufacturers are hoping the lesson will be lost as they move to return to online sales. Ford in my experience is especially bad about making poorly engineered low-mid tier vehicles that require consumer recalls, lawsuits, etc. They would benefit greatly from a reduced dealership presence without a corresponding decrease in sales volume.
- Someone1234 4y ago
  What federal laws are you referring to here? From my understanding most dealership protections are state, not federal.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I wonder is the same people would happily accept their months long wait for repair parts if it wasn't Tesla...
speeder 4y ago
My wife some months ago totalled my car. So I went to buy a car urgently... It was my first time buying a car by myself, the one that was totalled was a "hand me down" I purchased from a relative. Dealerships were a nightmare. New cars sucked and were ludicrously expensive. I found out some older cars were good for reasonable prices, and went looked for one. One dealership had a google review about how they allowed a car for servicing get stolen and didn't notice until police shown up to return the car. That same dealership tried to sell me a car that was obviously repainted in a shoddy manner and had literally misaligned parts while claiming the car never was crashed. And later a private seller complained to me unprompted that the same dealership despite being the official leadership or his vehicle, put the wrong oil in it. Another dealership had very pushy people that didn't listen and kept attempting to sell me weak cars (0.8 liter 3 cylinder) when I kept explaining my house was on a giant hill and I had more powerful cars stall on it before. Another one said some parts for the potential car were imported and expensive and I wouldn't want them when I asked the price... instead of just telling me the price. (I ended wanting the parts anyway, from another store obviously)
colinmhayes 4y ago
Unfortunately the reality is that dealer owners have a huge amount of local political power as they’re usually among the wealthiest people in their area. The us is generally decent when it comes to corruption, but this is one area where we have clearly failed.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  They will go extinct eventually from rivals without a dealership network consuming passenger vehicle sales TAM along with service revenue decline as combustion miles traveled decreases (EVs require much less service, and heavy drivers are financially incentivized to transition to EVs). What that tipping/inflection point is, I haven’t done the math. Smaller dealerships or those at the margins of course will be the first to close or sell out to mega corp dealer chains. Carmax is pretty decent for new car sales where they’re able to offer that, in my experience, and their used car buying experience is very good as well (have bought a handful of used cars from Carmax). Cannot speak to Carvana, haven’t used them.
  - ab_testing 4y ago
    I dont think that dealerships are going extinct anytime soon. They have a lot of clout and political power. Tesla moved their factory & headquarters to Texas but still cannot sell Teslas in TX without a dealer due to their franchised dealership laws. Carmax is a good service but it does not sell new cars, only used cars.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      You absolutely can buy a Tesla in Texas. You buy the vehicle on their website, and there are 50k+ Teslas currently registered in the state of TX. While Texas’ protectionism of its dealers is definitely a bummer, it’s trivial to work around.
- r00fus 4y ago
  > The us is generally decent when it comes to corruption Honestly I think this is sadly untrue. The corruption is there, just hidden very very well and legalized in the form of political lobbying and wall st. hedge funds.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
Dealers are a legally protected market in many states, which ban manufacturer-direct sales of cars. This is why in many states (including Texas), Tesla only has showrooms, not dealerships. (You need to fill out a purchase online and can't pick up any inventory from the, ahem, showroom.) No reason why Ford couldn't do the same, except that many dealerships which were independent are now owned by a few conglomerates who have a keen interest in preventing the loss of their business.
f0e4c2f7 4y ago
Check out Carvana. They're taking a swing at this.
- smt88 4y ago
  No they're not. They caved to dealer pressure. Carvana "guaranteed" offers are not guaranteed. Dealers don't respect them. It's essentially clickbait that dealers put out to get leads. Carvana is a search engine and nothing more. The offer numbers are entirely fictional. I was unable to get dealers to honor them even under threat of legal action for false advertising. The only companies trying to work around dealers are Carmax and Tesla.
  - Snoozle 4y ago
    I don't know what service you're talking about (truecar?) But carvana is basically online CarMax
    - smt88 4y ago
      Ah yes, I'm so sorry. I was thinking of TrueCar.
- ageitgey 4y ago
  In the UK, there is Cazoo (which is a direct clone of Carvana). My experience with them was incredible - I picked out the car and paid for it online and they brought it on a truck at exactly the agreed time. The whole purchase took 20 minutes of my time, including delivery. When they delivery person started to explain the car's features, I said I was familiar with the model as I had rented it before and researched it. He said great, he'll leave me to it. The price charged was exact, to the cent. The car's condition was exactly as shown online. Hopefully those types of start-ups will be successful and will become more popular. It was exactly what I wish all car buying was like. My past experiences buying cars in the US from dealerships was always a nightmare. Even if you walk in with cash to buy a specific car, it was always somehow a 4+ hour process with all the hoops they make you jump through and all the add-ons they try to tack on.

rasz 4y ago

but who will sell me my trucoat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2LLB9CGfLs

bluedino 4y ago

It sucks not being able to go down to a lot and pick out a new car.

Someone1234 4y ago
It sucks going down to a lot to test drive a new car and being hassled by someone who often knows less about the vehicle than you, then your phone blowing up for weeks after. I'd prefer to go to a showroom, test drive, not be hassled because there's no commission on the line. Then go do that at several other manufacture's showrooms, then go home and make my final selection in peace with a web browser and my spouse. If this system becomes efficient there's no reason why the manufacturer cannot have an interstate warehouse Amazon style with some "next day delivery" vehicles. So you can either pick your bespoke configuration and wait [period] or get something in inventory for almost immediate delivery, but in both cases you're ordering via your browser/phone. Now instead of shopping each state dealership's inventory one by one, you're shopping all collective dealership's inventory together and getting an incredible buying experience.
- bluedino 4y ago
  Do you want to visit these interstate warehouses to get your vehicle serviced as well?
  - namlem 4y ago
    Dealerships are not an efficient way to run repair shops either. Would be better if manufacturers just used repair certification for independent shops.
    - 14 4y ago
      Oh they are very efficient. Efficient at robbing people blind. I was going some work on a new gf car and asked when she last changed her spark plugs and she told me a couple years back at a hefty cost from the Honda dealership. I think it was close to $200. I can change them for the cost of the plugs so like $40. It is the easiest engine as well all plugs top and centre nothing buried way down the back of the engine like my parents s10 I want to change plugs on. It’s like a 15 minute job and requires no special tools.
  - voakbasda 4y ago
    No, I want a car that can be serviced myself, in my own garage. For those rare jobs that are bigger than I can handle myself, I want to be able to choose from any trusted local mechanic, without them having to buy a specific manufacturer's proprietary tools. Open standards, from parts to tools. I do not expect to get any of that with a new car, or even one made in the last couple of decades. That is why I will continue to maintain vehicles that were made before the turn of the century.

imchillyb 4y ago

> I wish they'd just get rid of dealerships already. @Someone1234 Dealerships are a direct result of our Federal Government stepping in to protect consumers. Vehicle manufacturers, before dealerships, would setup a lot to sell vehicles and then disappear several months later leaving citizens on the hook to attempt to resolve damages, repairs, or warranty issues. The US Federal Government had enough complaints from citizens across the country to propose dealerships as a resolution. These car lots would become responsible for repair and warranty issues directly acting in the place of manufacturers. In order to remove dealerships, one must first propose a valid remedy for these issues that dealerships are currently liable for.

natpalmer1776 4y ago
It's been long enough that perhaps the manufacturers are hoping the lesson will be lost as they move to return to online sales. Ford in my experience is especially bad about making poorly engineered low-mid tier vehicles that require consumer recalls, lawsuits, etc. They would benefit greatly from a reduced dealership presence without a corresponding decrease in sales volume.
Someone1234 4y ago
What federal laws are you referring to here? From my understanding most dealership protections are state, not federal.
Ekaros 4y ago
I wonder is the same people would happily accept their months long wait for repair parts if it wasn't Tesla...

speeder 4y ago

My wife some months ago totalled my car. So I went to buy a car urgently... It was my first time buying a car by myself, the one that was totalled was a "hand me down" I purchased from a relative. Dealerships were a nightmare. New cars sucked and were ludicrously expensive. I found out some older cars were good for reasonable prices, and went looked for one. One dealership had a google review about how they allowed a car for servicing get stolen and didn't notice until police shown up to return the car. That same dealership tried to sell me a car that was obviously repainted in a shoddy manner and had literally misaligned parts while claiming the car never was crashed. And later a private seller complained to me unprompted that the same dealership despite being the official leadership or his vehicle, put the wrong oil in it. Another dealership had very pushy people that didn't listen and kept attempting to sell me weak cars (0.8 liter 3 cylinder) when I kept explaining my house was on a giant hill and I had more powerful cars stall on it before. Another one said some parts for the potential car were imported and expensive and I wouldn't want them when I asked the price... instead of just telling me the price. (I ended wanting the parts anyway, from another store obviously)

colinmhayes 4y ago

Unfortunately the reality is that dealer owners have a huge amount of local political power as they’re usually among the wealthiest people in their area. The us is generally decent when it comes to corruption, but this is one area where we have clearly failed.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
They will go extinct eventually from rivals without a dealership network consuming passenger vehicle sales TAM along with service revenue decline as combustion miles traveled decreases (EVs require much less service, and heavy drivers are financially incentivized to transition to EVs). What that tipping/inflection point is, I haven’t done the math. Smaller dealerships or those at the margins of course will be the first to close or sell out to mega corp dealer chains. Carmax is pretty decent for new car sales where they’re able to offer that, in my experience, and their used car buying experience is very good as well (have bought a handful of used cars from Carmax). Cannot speak to Carvana, haven’t used them.
- ab_testing 4y ago
  I dont think that dealerships are going extinct anytime soon. They have a lot of clout and political power. Tesla moved their factory & headquarters to Texas but still cannot sell Teslas in TX without a dealer due to their franchised dealership laws. Carmax is a good service but it does not sell new cars, only used cars.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    You absolutely can buy a Tesla in Texas. You buy the vehicle on their website, and there are 50k+ Teslas currently registered in the state of TX. While Texas’ protectionism of its dealers is definitely a bummer, it’s trivial to work around.
r00fus 4y ago
> The us is generally decent when it comes to corruption Honestly I think this is sadly untrue. The corruption is there, just hidden very very well and legalized in the form of political lobbying and wall st. hedge funds.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

Dealers are a legally protected market in many states, which ban manufacturer-direct sales of cars. This is why in many states (including Texas), Tesla only has showrooms, not dealerships. (You need to fill out a purchase online and can't pick up any inventory from the, ahem, showroom.) No reason why Ford couldn't do the same, except that many dealerships which were independent are now owned by a few conglomerates who have a keen interest in preventing the loss of their business.

f0e4c2f7 4y ago

Check out Carvana. They're taking a swing at this.

smt88 4y ago
No they're not. They caved to dealer pressure. Carvana "guaranteed" offers are not guaranteed. Dealers don't respect them. It's essentially clickbait that dealers put out to get leads. Carvana is a search engine and nothing more. The offer numbers are entirely fictional. I was unable to get dealers to honor them even under threat of legal action for false advertising. The only companies trying to work around dealers are Carmax and Tesla.
- Snoozle 4y ago
  I don't know what service you're talking about (truecar?) But carvana is basically online CarMax
  - smt88 4y ago
    Ah yes, I'm so sorry. I was thinking of TrueCar.
ageitgey 4y ago
In the UK, there is Cazoo (which is a direct clone of Carvana). My experience with them was incredible - I picked out the car and paid for it online and they brought it on a truck at exactly the agreed time. The whole purchase took 20 minutes of my time, including delivery. When they delivery person started to explain the car's features, I said I was familiar with the model as I had rented it before and researched it. He said great, he'll leave me to it. The price charged was exact, to the cent. The car's condition was exactly as shown online. Hopefully those types of start-ups will be successful and will become more popular. It was exactly what I wish all car buying was like. My past experiences buying cars in the US from dealerships was always a nightmare. Even if you walk in with cash to buy a specific car, it was always somehow a 4+ hour process with all the hoops they make you jump through and all the add-ons they try to tack on.