4 ms·

Same here, but I just decided not to buy a new vehicle. The dealership wanted 20k over NEW MSRP on a USED model.

raxxorraxor 4y ago
I think dealers need to be careful since companies like Tesla demonstrate that you might be able to cut them out completely. Personally I buy used cars because I drive once a week and if you have friends with car repair skills maintenance is pretty cheap. That will soon change though and may never come back as cars will be locked down more (without actually having gained any significant functions as self driving is out of reach). Efficiency got better though. A new car today might indeed use 30% less gasoline compared to a 15 year old car. Don't know how diesel compares but that seems to be the best argument for a new car.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  There are legal issues with cutting dealers out, it's protectionism all the way down. Tesla gets away with it (sort of) by having zero dealers anywhere. Even so, they can't currently sell cars within Texas, despite having moved their HQ here. Texas is not alone[0]. Most states require automakers to use dealerships! Tesla operates stores within Texas, but only to show off the cars. If you express interest, they direct you to the website, as they are not allowed to sell to you in person. Dealers feel pretty comfortable with their legal protections right now. They probably shouldn't, because things could change quickly, but they won't change easily. 0. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/03/where-tesla-can-sell-cars-map/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/03/where-tesla-can-sell-ca...
  - mywittyname 4y ago
    If it gets bad enough, manufactures can spin up new brands without legacy dealership cruft. Even without that, a number of dealerships have consolidated into mega conglomerates. Manufactures could probably band together to acquire these at arms length and ensure they get the first, and largest allotment of special vehicles. But let's not pretend manufactures are innocent in all of this. For years, they tacitly encouraged shitty behavior from dealerships. They pushed margins so low that dealerships could only survive by hitting lofty sales targets and selling overpriced addons. The reason dealerships are okay with buying up new cars and selling them immediately as new is because this was the standard MO necessary for years to hit quarterly targets. If the dealership was two vehicles short of their target, and no customers were coming in, it looks like a few managers were buying some cars to trade back in next week. Customers don't blink at buying a "used" new car because dealerships just call them "demo" cars or something.
    - pwinnski 4y ago
      > Manufactures could probably band together to acquire these at arms length and ensure they get the first, and largest allotment of special vehicles. To my rough recollection, that is also not allowed by law. The US government once acted to prevent single entities from controlling all pieces of a pipeline, a pattern or doctrine that got lost in the 1970s. Many laws from that era remain. And yes, for sure, I'm not saying manufacturers are blameless here! If not for the laws preventing them from owning dealerships, I'm sure they would have already done so.
FireBeyond 4y ago
That may be part of a new thing. Fearful of sanctions from manufacturers, many dealerships have created shell companies, sold their supplies to the shell company for MSRP, who has immediately sold it back to the dealership for MSRP, and now sells it as a used vehicle with <100mi on it, and $20K above the new MSRP. Works doubly well for the dealership as they continue to get new cars for behaving.

I think dealers need to be careful since companies like Tesla demonstrate that you might be able to cut them out completely. Personally I buy used cars because I drive once a week and if you have friends with car repair skills maintenance is pretty cheap. That will soon change though and may never come back as cars will be locked down more (without actually having gained any significant functions as self driving is out of reach). Efficiency got better though. A new car today might indeed use 30% less gasoline compared to a 15 year old car. Don't know how diesel compares but that seems to be the best argument for a new car.

pwinnski 4y ago
There are legal issues with cutting dealers out, it's protectionism all the way down. Tesla gets away with it (sort of) by having zero dealers anywhere. Even so, they can't currently sell cars within Texas, despite having moved their HQ here. Texas is not alone[0]. Most states require automakers to use dealerships! Tesla operates stores within Texas, but only to show off the cars. If you express interest, they direct you to the website, as they are not allowed to sell to you in person. Dealers feel pretty comfortable with their legal protections right now. They probably shouldn't, because things could change quickly, but they won't change easily. 0. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/03/where-tesla-can-sell-cars-map/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/03/where-tesla-can-sell-ca...
- mywittyname 4y ago
  If it gets bad enough, manufactures can spin up new brands without legacy dealership cruft. Even without that, a number of dealerships have consolidated into mega conglomerates. Manufactures could probably band together to acquire these at arms length and ensure they get the first, and largest allotment of special vehicles. But let's not pretend manufactures are innocent in all of this. For years, they tacitly encouraged shitty behavior from dealerships. They pushed margins so low that dealerships could only survive by hitting lofty sales targets and selling overpriced addons. The reason dealerships are okay with buying up new cars and selling them immediately as new is because this was the standard MO necessary for years to hit quarterly targets. If the dealership was two vehicles short of their target, and no customers were coming in, it looks like a few managers were buying some cars to trade back in next week. Customers don't blink at buying a "used" new car because dealerships just call them "demo" cars or something.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    > Manufactures could probably band together to acquire these at arms length and ensure they get the first, and largest allotment of special vehicles. To my rough recollection, that is also not allowed by law. The US government once acted to prevent single entities from controlling all pieces of a pipeline, a pattern or doctrine that got lost in the 1970s. Many laws from that era remain. And yes, for sure, I'm not saying manufacturers are blameless here! If not for the laws preventing them from owning dealerships, I'm sure they would have already done so.

FireBeyond 4y ago

That may be part of a new thing. Fearful of sanctions from manufacturers, many dealerships have created shell companies, sold their supplies to the shell company for MSRP, who has immediately sold it back to the dealership for MSRP, and now sells it as a used vehicle with <100mi on it, and $20K above the new MSRP. Works doubly well for the dealership as they continue to get new cars for behaving.