6 ms·

I find it humorous that the usual tone deaf HR stuff suddenly becomes a lightning rod of "wokeness" for certain folks because it personally offends them. But w

I find it humorous that the usual tone deaf HR stuff suddenly becomes a lightning rod of "wokeness" for certain folks because it personally offends them. But with Scott Adams, you can see that this sort of stuff always irked him - look back at Dilbert poking fun at sensitivity training in the 90's - he did have the progressive take of making Asok and Alice as the equally, if not more, competent than their peers(ed: though fraught with presentation errors itself) Now however, he has taken an approach that is as subtle as a Ben Garrison "comic."

tenpies 4y ago
Is it now well known that Dilbert exists solely because Scott Adams was told - as a young executive - that he would not be promoted further because he is a white male? [1] --- [1] https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/1277667276573954049 https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/127766727657395404...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  It is well-known that Adams claimed that long after the fact, which is somewhat different from it being known to be true.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    Are you accusing him of lying? And if you are, do you have any evidence? Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Anyone could respond "he claimed that...which is somewhat different from it being known to be true" after any claim. It's just a way of derailing discussion and reducing the cognitive dissonance of a statement you'd rather not believe.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Yes, that's exactly how I feel about his long-delayed claims of explicit cut-and-dried (with decades of on-point precedent at the time he claims it occurred) illegal employment practice by his previous employer.
      - leereeves 4y ago
        There's an important difference: he knows what happened to him. You have no idea. So unless you have some conflicting evidence, the reasonable thing to do is listen to him about his own experience. Or to put it another way: his own testimony is a form of evidence. Whereas this entire diversion, starting from your comment, has added no new information. I think we should stop now.
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > You have no idea Exactly my point in regard to the upthread question: “Is it now well known that Dilbert exists solely because Scott Adams was told - as a young executive - that he would not be promoted further because he is a white male?” I have no idea if that occurred or if it is why Dilbert exists, though I certainly know that is part of the story that Adams tells about it.
        lamontcg 4y ago
        You're actually allowed to have skepticism about someone else's personal claims, offered decades after the fact, without any corroborating external facts.
        leereeves 4y ago
        What's the basis of your skepticism here? Is it rooted in fact, or in bias?
        random314 4y ago
        Its rooted in the fact that this behavior is illegal and managers are explicitly trained to not make any such communication.
        hnfong 4y ago
        By your reasoning everyone who reports a crime should be presumed to be lying.
    - evgen 4y ago
      > Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Seeing as how Adams has no evidence whatsoever that a large corporation whose HR department would be well-versed in what they can and cannot say (as well as what they should and should not say) to employees I think the burden of proof rests on Adams.
      - leereeves 4y ago
        Presumably an HR department or executive would also be smart enough not to put such a statement in writing.
  - klipt 4y ago
    Is it implausible that a corporation that wants to be viewed as progressive, would favor more diverse candidates?
  - knighthack 4y ago
    A woman can allege she was sexually assaulted years or decade after the event, and still be presumed to be stating the 'truth'. Yet Adams' claim - of discrimination for being white and male - is somehow presumed to be 'different' from the 'truth', just because he "claimed that long after the fact"? The truth does not change depending on the age of a claim.
- clutchdude 4y ago
  It doesn't seem well known - I can't find any many claims prior to the Summer of 2020. I found one quote in passing from 2005 - note this in regards his working time frame from 1979 to 1995. You got an MBA at night a few years later. This should have put you right on track for a boss-type position at the bank. What happened? Well, one day, my boss called me in, and said they couldn’t promote a white male because there was too much attention on the fact that there was no diversity in senior management. She told me I didn’t have a future with the bank. And so I put my resumé out and went to Pacific Bell. A couple of years later, [Pacific Bell] told me exactly the same thing. And that’s when I started looking at cartooning as an option. and You were placed on a series of doomed projects at Pacific Bell as punishment for mocking a boss’ memo in your cartoons. Did that actually work to your advantage by providing better grist for your cartoon mill? Well, it certainly made me angry, which is good. There’s a correlation between anger and humour. The angrier you are, the funnier you can be. You can drive things to the next level. But as far as material goes, I didn’t need any special bad projects to give me material – there was plenty. I urge you to read the full interview - I suspect his lack of promotion may be more related to him as an individual than his race or gender. https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/escape-from-platos-cubicle-a-talk-with-scott-adams-dilberts-creator/40513 https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/escape-from-platos-cub... Given he is the only source for this claim, I dunno what you want or expect me to say.
  - giaour 4y ago
    Memory is not infallible, and I find it more plausible that Adams is remembering his (maybe fair, maybe unfair) inference as an explicit statement.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    > Well, one day, my boss called me in, and said they couldn’t promote a white male because there was too much attention on the fact that there was no diversity in senior management. Good find. He was telling the same story 15 years ago. Absent some other evidence, it seems the main reason to be skeptical is simply that it's not a pleasing thing to hear.
    - 4y ago
- amalter 4y ago
  I will drop this apropos of nothing about the time that Scott Adam's created numerous sock puppets to influence discussion about himself on a "popular with the technorati" community blog - https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Scott_Adams,_plannedchaos https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Scott_Adams,_plannedchaos

tenpies 4y ago

Is it now well known that Dilbert exists solely because Scott Adams was told - as a young executive - that he would not be promoted further because he is a white male? [1] --- [1] https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/1277667276573954049 https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/127766727657395404...

dragonwriter 4y ago
It is well-known that Adams claimed that long after the fact, which is somewhat different from it being known to be true.
- leereeves 4y ago
  Are you accusing him of lying? And if you are, do you have any evidence? Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Anyone could respond "he claimed that...which is somewhat different from it being known to be true" after any claim. It's just a way of derailing discussion and reducing the cognitive dissonance of a statement you'd rather not believe.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Yes, that's exactly how I feel about his long-delayed claims of explicit cut-and-dried (with decades of on-point precedent at the time he claims it occurred) illegal employment practice by his previous employer.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      There's an important difference: he knows what happened to him. You have no idea. So unless you have some conflicting evidence, the reasonable thing to do is listen to him about his own experience. Or to put it another way: his own testimony is a form of evidence. Whereas this entire diversion, starting from your comment, has added no new information. I think we should stop now.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > You have no idea Exactly my point in regard to the upthread question: “Is it now well known that Dilbert exists solely because Scott Adams was told - as a young executive - that he would not be promoted further because he is a white male?” I have no idea if that occurred or if it is why Dilbert exists, though I certainly know that is part of the story that Adams tells about it.
      - lamontcg 4y ago
        You're actually allowed to have skepticism about someone else's personal claims, offered decades after the fact, without any corroborating external facts.
        leereeves 4y ago
        What's the basis of your skepticism here? Is it rooted in fact, or in bias?
        random314 4y ago
        Its rooted in the fact that this behavior is illegal and managers are explicitly trained to not make any such communication.
        hnfong 4y ago
        By your reasoning everyone who reports a crime should be presumed to be lying.
  - evgen 4y ago
    > Evidence would be interesting, but unsupported accusations don't add anything to the conversation. Seeing as how Adams has no evidence whatsoever that a large corporation whose HR department would be well-versed in what they can and cannot say (as well as what they should and should not say) to employees I think the burden of proof rests on Adams.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      Presumably an HR department or executive would also be smart enough not to put such a statement in writing.
- klipt 4y ago
  Is it implausible that a corporation that wants to be viewed as progressive, would favor more diverse candidates?
- knighthack 4y ago
  A woman can allege she was sexually assaulted years or decade after the event, and still be presumed to be stating the 'truth'. Yet Adams' claim - of discrimination for being white and male - is somehow presumed to be 'different' from the 'truth', just because he "claimed that long after the fact"? The truth does not change depending on the age of a claim.
clutchdude 4y ago
It doesn't seem well known - I can't find any many claims prior to the Summer of 2020. I found one quote in passing from 2005 - note this in regards his working time frame from 1979 to 1995. You got an MBA at night a few years later. This should have put you right on track for a boss-type position at the bank. What happened? Well, one day, my boss called me in, and said they couldn’t promote a white male because there was too much attention on the fact that there was no diversity in senior management. She told me I didn’t have a future with the bank. And so I put my resumé out and went to Pacific Bell. A couple of years later, [Pacific Bell] told me exactly the same thing. And that’s when I started looking at cartooning as an option. and You were placed on a series of doomed projects at Pacific Bell as punishment for mocking a boss’ memo in your cartoons. Did that actually work to your advantage by providing better grist for your cartoon mill? Well, it certainly made me angry, which is good. There’s a correlation between anger and humour. The angrier you are, the funnier you can be. You can drive things to the next level. But as far as material goes, I didn’t need any special bad projects to give me material – there was plenty. I urge you to read the full interview - I suspect his lack of promotion may be more related to him as an individual than his race or gender. https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/escape-from-platos-cubicle-a-talk-with-scott-adams-dilberts-creator/40513 https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/escape-from-platos-cub... Given he is the only source for this claim, I dunno what you want or expect me to say.
- giaour 4y ago
  Memory is not infallible, and I find it more plausible that Adams is remembering his (maybe fair, maybe unfair) inference as an explicit statement.
- leereeves 4y ago
  > Well, one day, my boss called me in, and said they couldn’t promote a white male because there was too much attention on the fact that there was no diversity in senior management. Good find. He was telling the same story 15 years ago. Absent some other evidence, it seems the main reason to be skeptical is simply that it's not a pleasing thing to hear.
  - 4y ago
amalter 4y ago
I will drop this apropos of nothing about the time that Scott Adam's created numerous sock puppets to influence discussion about himself on a "popular with the technorati" community blog - https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Scott_Adams,_plannedchaos https://mefiwiki.com/wiki/Scott_Adams,_plannedchaos