6 ms·

At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of app

by chem83 4y ago

At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's.

anonymoushn 4y ago
> At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. This is inaccurate. In 2019 a Google recruiter decided on my behalf which team I would match, extended a 4-day exploding offer, and blacklisted me when I said that other processes would take more than 4 days. This was within a couple months of passing hc.
- chem83 4y ago
  I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but yours is not the norm. The norm is what I described.
winternett 4y ago
I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data from you interview to build an internal profile on you that is used in God knows how many ways... They also subject you to high-school level team picking, which is deeply rooted in internal/company politics and an additional dynamic of company bias and it all enables the company orphan you easily if they find you don't submit to being overworked easily and complying with the deep team culture that each company evangelizes. People are pressured now more than ever to adopt rules of conduct that encroach upon and threaten their individuality now more than ever by large companies.. Even when you log on to apps like TikTok and Instagram. Your individuality and experience are often thrown out in working environments so that you become a cog in the wheel, and more easily replaceable for these companies, not so that you can one day grow to be a CEO or Exec, and even still, those types of positions are often reserved for others who can fail multiple times and not get fired, while if you fail on the months long hiring process, you'll never survive. On the inverse, I have been hired by smaller and medium sized contracting companies for much better salaries, and they often hire within days or weeks. I have very little patience for dragged out hiring and onboarding processes now. I work efficiently, do a good job, respect everyone's individuality and culture, and then go home to enjoy my life. I only work at companies there that is the culture. Luckily, if the market is screwed up or too hostile, I just work on my own ventures, it took 20 years of suffering through hostile corporate cultures and attempted indoctrination to get to this point where I have the choice. None of the large corporations I've worker for called to check on me since our breakups, but most of them would likely rehire me if I re-applied... Not being arrogant, but emphasizing that the internal rules are frequently bent to serve the needs of delivery... The people that get chewed up worst by the machine often have the lowest technical skills and ability, experience, and self esteem. I don't put any company on a pedestal; I just work efficiently and effectively with integrity, constantly learn (well aligned) stuff that works to get the job done, rely heavily on my prior experience, fight to keep solutions simple, and adapt constantly to efficiently meet goals... Company "culture workshops" and even colleges will never teach you that.
- granshaw 4y ago
  Wait, small/mid contracting companies (aka agencies) paying more than Google? Are you based in the US? Care sharing the company name(s)?
  - winternett 4y ago
    You're focused on a different angle than on what I posted. There are so many factors that affect compensation for each individual employee, comparison of pay is useless. Geographical region also has big bearing on the discussion, and it really makes no sense to compare compensation online with a public audience in that manner. I won't discuss specific details and employers online for obvious reasons. I reside on the East Coast, West Coast is a completely different labor market, and the cost of living in silicon valley is higher, another reason why comparison is futile. Jobs also rely on skill and experience, to which each person ranks differently, so individual salary comparison online is ultimately not accurate, why even try? That being said, 6 months of work at $200k or 1 year of work at $100k is the same amount of money, but one job costs the employee a lot more time out of their life. Work is meant to supplement our lives, not the other way around. We're either marketable as employees or not, small companies that want to compete and grow within a workspace often pay more for highly skilled employees for shorter work terms overall, because they have vital work to do in order to be competitive... Sure small and medium (non-public) companies don't offer RSUs and other things that large (FAANG) companies do, but if you really take a look at how long it takes to be vested in those huge companies, and how most people don't last long enough to vest, and how much big company culture changes employees to the point that when they're laid off or quit after bad experiences they suffer in readjusting to the regular working world... The compensation can be a lot better in small/medium sized companies.
    - joshuamorton 4y ago
      I think you have some misunderstanding, because it takes approximately one month to start vesting at Google (and Facebook) and at Google your equity is frontloaded. I'll happily tell you what the approximate compensation is by Google in Atlanta or NYC, because there's really no reason not to discuss those things.
alasdair_ 4y ago
>At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's. This may differ on which office you are at. In Seattle, we started working with teams during the tail end of bootcamp, with some people finding a team in 1-2 weeks and others in 6-8 weeks. One thing I liked was that if a team had an open position and you said "I want that position", the hiring manager basically had to take you, whereas at Google, each hiring manager could reject you for their team, so you can spend a long time trying and failing to match. The other thing I liked about FB's process was that you actually got to work directly with the team and do real work, rather than having the position filtered through a hiring manager. Spending a week actually writing code helped a lot with understanding which team would be the best fit and isn't something you can really do with a non-employee.

by chem83 4y ago

anonymoushn 4y ago

> At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. This is inaccurate. In 2019 a Google recruiter decided on my behalf which team I would match, extended a 4-day exploding offer, and blacklisted me when I said that other processes would take more than 4 days. This was within a couple months of passing hc.

chem83 4y ago
I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but yours is not the norm. The norm is what I described.

winternett 4y ago

I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data from you interview to build an internal profile on you that is used in God knows how many ways... They also subject you to high-school level team picking, which is deeply rooted in internal/company politics and an additional dynamic of company bias and it all enables the company orphan you easily if they find you don't submit to being overworked easily and complying with the deep team culture that each company evangelizes. People are pressured now more than ever to adopt rules of conduct that encroach upon and threaten their individuality now more than ever by large companies.. Even when you log on to apps like TikTok and Instagram. Your individuality and experience are often thrown out in working environments so that you become a cog in the wheel, and more easily replaceable for these companies, not so that you can one day grow to be a CEO or Exec, and even still, those types of positions are often reserved for others who can fail multiple times and not get fired, while if you fail on the months long hiring process, you'll never survive. On the inverse, I have been hired by smaller and medium sized contracting companies for much better salaries, and they often hire within days or weeks. I have very little patience for dragged out hiring and onboarding processes now. I work efficiently, do a good job, respect everyone's individuality and culture, and then go home to enjoy my life. I only work at companies there that is the culture. Luckily, if the market is screwed up or too hostile, I just work on my own ventures, it took 20 years of suffering through hostile corporate cultures and attempted indoctrination to get to this point where I have the choice. None of the large corporations I've worker for called to check on me since our breakups, but most of them would likely rehire me if I re-applied... Not being arrogant, but emphasizing that the internal rules are frequently bent to serve the needs of delivery... The people that get chewed up worst by the machine often have the lowest technical skills and ability, experience, and self esteem. I don't put any company on a pedestal; I just work efficiently and effectively with integrity, constantly learn (well aligned) stuff that works to get the job done, rely heavily on my prior experience, fight to keep solutions simple, and adapt constantly to efficiently meet goals... Company "culture workshops" and even colleges will never teach you that.

granshaw 4y ago
Wait, small/mid contracting companies (aka agencies) paying more than Google? Are you based in the US? Care sharing the company name(s)?
- winternett 4y ago
  You're focused on a different angle than on what I posted. There are so many factors that affect compensation for each individual employee, comparison of pay is useless. Geographical region also has big bearing on the discussion, and it really makes no sense to compare compensation online with a public audience in that manner. I won't discuss specific details and employers online for obvious reasons. I reside on the East Coast, West Coast is a completely different labor market, and the cost of living in silicon valley is higher, another reason why comparison is futile. Jobs also rely on skill and experience, to which each person ranks differently, so individual salary comparison online is ultimately not accurate, why even try? That being said, 6 months of work at $200k or 1 year of work at $100k is the same amount of money, but one job costs the employee a lot more time out of their life. Work is meant to supplement our lives, not the other way around. We're either marketable as employees or not, small companies that want to compete and grow within a workspace often pay more for highly skilled employees for shorter work terms overall, because they have vital work to do in order to be competitive... Sure small and medium (non-public) companies don't offer RSUs and other things that large (FAANG) companies do, but if you really take a look at how long it takes to be vested in those huge companies, and how most people don't last long enough to vest, and how much big company culture changes employees to the point that when they're laid off or quit after bad experiences they suffer in readjusting to the regular working world... The compensation can be a lot better in small/medium sized companies.
  - joshuamorton 4y ago
    I think you have some misunderstanding, because it takes approximately one month to start vesting at Google (and Facebook) and at Google your equity is frontloaded. I'll happily tell you what the approximate compensation is by Google in Atlanta or NYC, because there's really no reason not to discuss those things.

alasdair_ 4y ago

>At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's. This may differ on which office you are at. In Seattle, we started working with teams during the tail end of bootcamp, with some people finding a team in 1-2 weeks and others in 6-8 weeks. One thing I liked was that if a team had an open position and you said "I want that position", the hiring manager basically had to take you, whereas at Google, each hiring manager could reject you for their team, so you can spend a long time trying and failing to match. The other thing I liked about FB's process was that you actually got to work directly with the team and do real work, rather than having the position filtered through a hiring manager. Spending a week actually writing code helped a lot with understanding which team would be the best fit and isn't something you can really do with a non-employee.