3 ms·

It kind of makes sense to keep people in the pipeline as it were. If you shut down the whole apparatus, you have to spin it back up when hiring is unfrozen. But

by bena 4y ago

It kind of makes sense to keep people in the pipeline as it were. If you shut down the whole apparatus, you have to spin it back up when hiring is unfrozen. But if you keep the machine running, you're ready to hire the instant you can. For them that is. Sucks for you and me.

chem83 4y ago
At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's.
- anonymoushn 4y ago
  > At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. This is inaccurate. In 2019 a Google recruiter decided on my behalf which team I would match, extended a 4-day exploding offer, and blacklisted me when I said that other processes would take more than 4 days. This was within a couple months of passing hc.
  - chem83 4y ago
    I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but yours is not the norm. The norm is what I described.
- winternett 4y ago
  I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data from you interview to build an internal profile on you that is used in God knows how many ways... They also subject you to high-school level team picking, which is deeply rooted in internal/company politics and an additional dynamic of company bias and it all enables the company orphan you easily if they find you don't submit to being overworked easily and complying with the deep team culture that each company evangelizes. People are pressured now more than ever to adopt rules of conduct that encroach upon and threaten their individuality now more than ever by large companies.. Even when you log on to apps like TikTok and Instagram. Your individuality and experience are often thrown out in working environments so that you become a cog in the wheel, and more easily replaceable for these companies, not so that you can one day grow to be a CEO or Exec, and even still, those types of positions are often reserved for others who can fail multiple times and not get fired, while if you fail on the months long hiring process, you'll never survive. On the inverse, I have been hired by smaller and medium sized contracting companies for much better salaries, and they often hire within days or weeks. I have very little patience for dragged out hiring and onboarding processes now. I work efficiently, do a good job, respect everyone's individuality and culture, and then go home to enjoy my life. I only work at companies there that is the culture. Luckily, if the market is screwed up or too hostile, I just work on my own ventures, it took 20 years of suffering through hostile corporate cultures and attempted indoctrination to get to this point where I have the choice. None of the large corporations I've worker for called to check on me since our breakups, but most of them would likely rehire me if I re-applied... Not being arrogant, but emphasizing that the internal rules are frequently bent to serve the needs of delivery... The people that get chewed up worst by the machine often have the lowest technical skills and ability, experience, and self esteem. I don't put any company on a pedestal; I just work efficiently and effectively with integrity, constantly learn (well aligned) stuff that works to get the job done, rely heavily on my prior experience, fight to keep solutions simple, and adapt constantly to efficiently meet goals... Company "culture workshops" and even colleges will never teach you that.
- alasdair_ 4y ago
  >At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's. This may differ on which office you are at. In Seattle, we started working with teams during the tail end of bootcamp, with some people finding a team in 1-2 weeks and others in 6-8 weeks. One thing I liked was that if a team had an open position and you said "I want that position", the hiring manager basically had to take you, whereas at Google, each hiring manager could reject you for their team, so you can spend a long time trying and failing to match. The other thing I liked about FB's process was that you actually got to work directly with the team and do real work, rather than having the position filtered through a hiring manager. Spending a week actually writing code helped a lot with understanding which team would be the best fit and isn't something you can really do with a non-employee.
jboggan 4y ago
There was a TGIF Q&A session in 2016 or 2017 and someone asked Sergei what his worst business decision at Google was, and he replied that it was slowing down and stopping hiring during 2008-2009.

by bena 4y ago

chem83 4y ago

At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's.

anonymoushn 4y ago
> At Google, upon entering the process, recruiters explain that an offer within engineering (including PM, T/PgM etc.) is valid for 12 months from the date of approval from the hiring committee. So while it can take a long time for someone to find a team match, that flexibility is also available for the candidate, so they get to keep declining teams that are not interesting until a real match for both sides is available. This is inaccurate. In 2019 a Google recruiter decided on my behalf which team I would match, extended a 4-day exploding offer, and blacklisted me when I said that other processes would take more than 4 days. This was within a couple months of passing hc.
- chem83 4y ago
  I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but yours is not the norm. The norm is what I described.
winternett 4y ago
I've noticed that many of the most "prestigious" places to work do a wildly fake process aligned with academia to recruit employees. It creates the illusion that jobs are coveted... They present you with challenges and questions over a long period of time which are actually directly tied to their own internal problem solving if you are a senior level hire as well (free work), and they catalogue personal info and data from you interview to build an internal profile on you that is used in God knows how many ways... They also subject you to high-school level team picking, which is deeply rooted in internal/company politics and an additional dynamic of company bias and it all enables the company orphan you easily if they find you don't submit to being overworked easily and complying with the deep team culture that each company evangelizes. People are pressured now more than ever to adopt rules of conduct that encroach upon and threaten their individuality now more than ever by large companies.. Even when you log on to apps like TikTok and Instagram. Your individuality and experience are often thrown out in working environments so that you become a cog in the wheel, and more easily replaceable for these companies, not so that you can one day grow to be a CEO or Exec, and even still, those types of positions are often reserved for others who can fail multiple times and not get fired, while if you fail on the months long hiring process, you'll never survive. On the inverse, I have been hired by smaller and medium sized contracting companies for much better salaries, and they often hire within days or weeks. I have very little patience for dragged out hiring and onboarding processes now. I work efficiently, do a good job, respect everyone's individuality and culture, and then go home to enjoy my life. I only work at companies there that is the culture. Luckily, if the market is screwed up or too hostile, I just work on my own ventures, it took 20 years of suffering through hostile corporate cultures and attempted indoctrination to get to this point where I have the choice. None of the large corporations I've worker for called to check on me since our breakups, but most of them would likely rehire me if I re-applied... Not being arrogant, but emphasizing that the internal rules are frequently bent to serve the needs of delivery... The people that get chewed up worst by the machine often have the lowest technical skills and ability, experience, and self esteem. I don't put any company on a pedestal; I just work efficiently and effectively with integrity, constantly learn (well aligned) stuff that works to get the job done, rely heavily on my prior experience, fight to keep solutions simple, and adapt constantly to efficiently meet goals... Company "culture workshops" and even colleges will never teach you that.
alasdair_ 4y ago
>At Facebook, it's possible to match before starting, but candidates usually try to do the matching in the 2 weeks (or so) of training they do in Menlo Park. It's up to them to cold call and find time with hiring managers to sell themselves (and vice-versa). But time-wise, the process is much more constrained than Google's. This may differ on which office you are at. In Seattle, we started working with teams during the tail end of bootcamp, with some people finding a team in 1-2 weeks and others in 6-8 weeks. One thing I liked was that if a team had an open position and you said "I want that position", the hiring manager basically had to take you, whereas at Google, each hiring manager could reject you for their team, so you can spend a long time trying and failing to match. The other thing I liked about FB's process was that you actually got to work directly with the team and do real work, rather than having the position filtered through a hiring manager. Spending a week actually writing code helped a lot with understanding which team would be the best fit and isn't something you can really do with a non-employee.

jboggan 4y ago

There was a TGIF Q&A session in 2016 or 2017 and someone asked Sergei what his worst business decision at Google was, and he replied that it was slowing down and stopping hiring during 2008-2009.