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PH and the people that work there are a 1000% liable for this person’s abuse. Publishing sensitive content without verifying the supply chain is a risky move, a
by exabrial 4y ago
PH and the people that work there are a 1000% liable for this person’s abuse. Publishing sensitive content without verifying the supply chain is a risky move, and they eventually got caught.
That said, I really don’t want the payment processor involved in a case like this.
There’s a bigger issue at stake, and that is private companies legislating morality. We’ve allowed Visa to be a monopoly and that is a hard hard thing to undo. If we actually had choices besides Visa, I wouldn’t care, but alas, they are a monopoly and we’ve done nothing about them.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- enos_feedler 4y agoIsn’t the fact they aren’t a monopoly what gets them to change? Bill Ackman was on CNBC this morning ripping into them for like 15 minutes of prime air time on this issue. The CEO of Visa is nowhere to be heard from. I suspect the end result will be to revoke PH as a customer. Why? Because Mastercard and Amex exist
- xwowsersx 4y agoSounds like Bill Ackman has a short on Visa.
- enos_feedler 4y agoIt would sound that way, which is why CNBC made him clear up any conflicts on air. He said he currently has 7 total long positions and zero shorts and no plans to enter anything with Visa. He was stretching to find a connection with Visa and the best he came up with is that Lowes accepts visa cards
- tmpz22 4y agoAh yes American supply chain responsibility following the great American institutions like Nestle, Johnson and Johnson, Amazon, and my personal favorite the United Fruit Company.
- stephencanon 4y agoNestle is Swiss.
- Jugurtha 4y agoNitpicking: Nestlé is Swiss.
- hmYesok 4y ago
- Jugurtha 4y agoNestlé France's employees are mostly French, too, as is the case with most multinationals.
- hmYesok 4y agoJust a bunch of vain apes pretending their memorization of details of paperwork were the point of the original comment calling out application of agency Legally owned by some dumb apes in Switzerland, still act like typical indifferent human assholes to the rest of the species with their monopolization of resources Real human acts getting hidden and buried by political correctness. Stop with the stupid indirection
- dang 4y agoCould you please stop creating accounts that break the site guidelines? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- smoldesu 4y agoNitpicking: Nestlé's supply chain doesn't exist without American freshwater.
- 4y ago
- georgia_peach 4y agoVisa cut off Gab.com, on their own initiative, for incidentally carrying posts by the Pittsburgh shooter. Why didn't they exercise the same judgement against PornHub for incidentally carrying vids of child sexploitation? They opened themselves up to this line of legal reasoning.
- Miner49er 4y agoThey did. https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/10/22168240/mastercard-ending-pornhub-payment-processing-unlawful-videos https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/10/22168240/mastercard-endi...
- jessaustin 4y agoTFA is about events in 2014. If anything, putting a stop to such things six years later makes them look more guilty.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- zmgsabst 4y agoWhy haven’t they exercised the same judgment against Google for YouTube hosting abuse or Google Search indexing abuse?
- georgia_peach 4y agoMoney, probably.
- jbverschoor 4y agoRisk-reward... that's the only thing banks care about
- tiahura 4y agoThat’s not a legal argument for liability. As a private company they’re perfectly free to pick who they do and don’t do business with. They just can’t do business with criminals engaged in criminality. The only real issue is wether they knew that Pornhub had child porn. Now if Visa said it’s technically impossible to ban someone, Gab could be used to prove that it is
- throwawaymanbot 4y ago
- jffry 4y agoVISA was trying to have themselves removed from the lawsuit before trial even happens, but this ruling is where the judge lays out why the plaintiff has both standing and a possible cause of action against them and therefore why they must be included in the lawsuit.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago> private companies legislating morality This was one of the problems cryptocurrencies were invented to solve. It shouldn't be up to Visa whether to cut off funding to anyone in particular.
- dizzant 4y agoAre you defending the position that as a society, we should continue to allow funding the creation of child pornography through means of crypto? Visa states openly that they weren’t aware of the situation at issue, don’t support child pornography, and have taken steps to avoid supporting it. This isn’t a case of cutting off some “industry”; child pornography is already widely and rightly maligned.
- mbg721 4y agoOf course not, child pornography is strictly within the domain of public schools, until those pesky parents infiltrate the boards.
- georgia_peach 4y agoCan't speak for matheusmoreira, but I think Visa should handle payments & law enforcement should handle diddlers. Turning payment processors into an extra-judicial enforcement system on top of the existing one is a mess in so many different ways (jurisdiction, lack of due process, arbitrary enforcement, financial motives, conflict of interest, lack of transparency, etc...).
- matheusmoreira 4y agoI'm saying it's the police's job to go out there, investigate and arrest child molesters, not some payment technology's. Money companies turning into extra-judicial law enforcement by means of risk assessment is how you get bullshit like PayPal's constant freezing of accounts.
- tomc1985 4y agoToo bad they have utterly failed at their stated purpose
- mrtksn 4y agoI agree but I think there's a caveat. I think it is possible to have situations where it is really hard to corner the offenders and it makes sense to go after the enablers. One case would be ransomware attacks, another case can be content out of reach from the jurisdiction(for example, at one point Russia might choose to host copyrighted or other no bueno materials). With the case of PornHub, the victim apparently reached them but it took PH weeks to remove the offending materials. Maybe, if that industry or that company cannot be forced to act appropriately before an irreversible damage is done it can make sense to go after their enablers like Visa. It could be reasonable to require payment processors to have a fast channel to report abuse. PH would have noticed the problem much quicker, had Visa cut them off from collecting payments.
- SCLeo 4y agoShould the manufacturer of the camera be held responsible because they did not verify the purpose of the buyer and consequently allowing them to produce illegal material? (They could technically have some online DRM installed to all of their cameras and if it is reported that someone is making illegal material, they can brick those cameras in question.) I think the issue is that Visa should not be tasked with enforcing the law. In my opinion, in an ideal world, PornHub should be forced to verify its content not by Visa, but by the government, i.e. there will be heavy fine for allowing illegal materials to be uploaded.
- mrtksn 4y ago> Should the manufacturer of the camera be held responsible because they did not verify the purpose of the buyer and consequently allowing them to produce illegal material? I don't think this is a good analogy as Visa does operations and it's quite reasonable to require safety during operations. > PornHub should be forced to verify its content not by Visa, but by the government The problem with this is, which government? We don't have a world government or harmonised regulations but we have an international network.
- cyan5 4y ago
- dragonwriter 4y ago> That said, I really don’t want the payment processor involved in a case like this. Are you saying that a payment processor should not be held liable if they had knowledge of the illegal content, and actively decided to profit from it, or are you saying that you do not believe they actually did that? Because only the first point was at issue in this decision.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]