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> a full stack developer is a made-up term used mostly by management because there is no such thing as a person who is equally adept at the front and back. You

> a full stack developer is a made-up term used mostly by management because there is no such thing as a person who is equally adept at the front and back. You never witnessing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

darkwater 4y ago
They do exist but they are either a very talented and rare individual, or a jack of all trades.
- Scarblac 4y ago
  Is jack of all trades used as a negative thing here? That's new for me. Anyway, it'd be a jack of several things, probably. All is a bit hard these days. If someone can be considered "senior frontend developer" with say four years of experience, and careers span four decades, it should be the norm to be decent at multiple things.
  - dagw 4y ago
    If someone can be considered "senior frontend developer" with say four years of experience, and careers span four decades, it should be the norm to be decent at multiple things. Sure, but skills need to be kept sharp and relevant as well. There was a time in the distant past when I no doubt qualified as a "senior frontend web developer" (although we didn't use that term back then). However A LOT of things have a changed since then and I am out of date on the latest "frontend web develop" techniques and tools. Were I to want to get a job as a frontend web developer today I would no doubt be considered very much a junior.
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      There's a big difference between a senior who happens not to have worked on a particular tech stack in recent years and a junior that happens to have got started with that stack. The senior will definitely be able to command a significantly higher salary and within a fairly short period (months if not weeks) should be able to demonstrate that value. There's value in knowing a particular stack inside out for sure, but it doesn't match the general skills and experience you can only gain by having worked as a developer over a decade or so.
  - darkwater 4y ago
    Jack of all trades means that you have a broad spectrum of knowledge but not deep knowledge in a specific field. If you are a very talented individual you can have both broad and deep knowledge. The trick here is that the definitions of "deep" and "broad" vary a lot depending on who you ask to. As stated in other comments, there are people that consider "broad" knowing how to write JS for web pages and a (simple) NodeJS backend and other that think you have a broad knowledge if you know how an eBPF script works in the kernel and also how the V8 engine optimizes your Javascript in the browser, and all the layers in between.
nkrisc 4y ago
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. We don’t need to point them out every time.
- lghh 4y ago
  So we can just make up something blatantly false and say what you said when someone calls it out?
  - nkrisc 4y ago
    Imagine I’m setting up hurdles for some charity obstacle course event. I set them to 7ft high. Someone says, “nobody can jump 7ft high!” I reply that it has in fact has been done by someone, so their statement is false and therefore leave the hurdles at 7ft high. I said we don’t need to point out the exceptions every time. Of course some people are equally talented in front end and back end, no one should take the statement literally. It is clearly hyperbole expressing that fact that most people are not.
    - lghh 4y ago
      Yes, this would be true if the rarity of someone who could write front-end and back-end code in proportion to the number of software developers was as rare as the number of people who could jump 7 feet is to the number of people who can jump. It's more akin to extending the three-point line between college and the NBA. While extending, you say "but nobody can shoot from that far away" while NBA hopefuls are draining shots just out of your view. Sure, the line is too far out for college, but there are _plenty_ of professionals who can shoot from that far out who are both in and out of the NBA. Sure, nobody at a charity obstacle course will be able to perform at the same level as a professional. Good thing we're talking about professionals software developers when we talk about full-stack developers and we're not talking about professional nurses or amateur painters. It's rare within the general population, but it's not rare within the world of software development.
      - nkrisc 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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darkwater 4y ago

They do exist but they are either a very talented and rare individual, or a jack of all trades.

Scarblac 4y ago
Is jack of all trades used as a negative thing here? That's new for me. Anyway, it'd be a jack of several things, probably. All is a bit hard these days. If someone can be considered "senior frontend developer" with say four years of experience, and careers span four decades, it should be the norm to be decent at multiple things.
- dagw 4y ago
  If someone can be considered "senior frontend developer" with say four years of experience, and careers span four decades, it should be the norm to be decent at multiple things. Sure, but skills need to be kept sharp and relevant as well. There was a time in the distant past when I no doubt qualified as a "senior frontend web developer" (although we didn't use that term back then). However A LOT of things have a changed since then and I am out of date on the latest "frontend web develop" techniques and tools. Were I to want to get a job as a frontend web developer today I would no doubt be considered very much a junior.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    There's a big difference between a senior who happens not to have worked on a particular tech stack in recent years and a junior that happens to have got started with that stack. The senior will definitely be able to command a significantly higher salary and within a fairly short period (months if not weeks) should be able to demonstrate that value. There's value in knowing a particular stack inside out for sure, but it doesn't match the general skills and experience you can only gain by having worked as a developer over a decade or so.
- darkwater 4y ago
  Jack of all trades means that you have a broad spectrum of knowledge but not deep knowledge in a specific field. If you are a very talented individual you can have both broad and deep knowledge. The trick here is that the definitions of "deep" and "broad" vary a lot depending on who you ask to. As stated in other comments, there are people that consider "broad" knowing how to write JS for web pages and a (simple) NodeJS backend and other that think you have a broad knowledge if you know how an eBPF script works in the kernel and also how the V8 engine optimizes your Javascript in the browser, and all the layers in between.

nkrisc 4y ago

Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. We don’t need to point them out every time.

lghh 4y ago
So we can just make up something blatantly false and say what you said when someone calls it out?
- nkrisc 4y ago
  Imagine I’m setting up hurdles for some charity obstacle course event. I set them to 7ft high. Someone says, “nobody can jump 7ft high!” I reply that it has in fact has been done by someone, so their statement is false and therefore leave the hurdles at 7ft high. I said we don’t need to point out the exceptions every time. Of course some people are equally talented in front end and back end, no one should take the statement literally. It is clearly hyperbole expressing that fact that most people are not.
  - lghh 4y ago
    Yes, this would be true if the rarity of someone who could write front-end and back-end code in proportion to the number of software developers was as rare as the number of people who could jump 7 feet is to the number of people who can jump. It's more akin to extending the three-point line between college and the NBA. While extending, you say "but nobody can shoot from that far away" while NBA hopefuls are draining shots just out of your view. Sure, the line is too far out for college, but there are _plenty_ of professionals who can shoot from that far out who are both in and out of the NBA. Sure, nobody at a charity obstacle course will be able to perform at the same level as a professional. Good thing we're talking about professionals software developers when we talk about full-stack developers and we're not talking about professional nurses or amateur painters. It's rare within the general population, but it's not rare within the world of software development.
    - nkrisc 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

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