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How would you define "real diversity", as opposed to "fake diversity"?

meowkit 4y ago
With the following context: "Diversity" as a variable input to some bodies ability to problem solve. "Real" diversity are the dimensions that can vary and affect the above context. Different mental models/modes + patterns of human thought can be used to tackle problems in >diverse< and potentially unique ways. "Fake" diversity are the dimensions that can vary and not affect the above context. Superficial characteristics of a human person will not affect problem solving. "Fake" diversity can be used as a statistical measure for "real" diversity. A man and a women likely have different life experiences, resulting in different mental models ("real" diversity). A black person and a white person will likely have different life experiences, resulting in different mental models. Where this all goes awry is when you optimize for superficial diversity. You end up selecting against diversity of thought/character/non-superficial things over time. This sentence is based on conclusions around game theoretic optimization drawn from SSC Meditations on Moloch (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/).
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Based on your definitions, would you agree that real diversity is immeasurable, and that the only way to foster real diversity is to allow "fake" diversity to thrive? Viewing diversity as a means to an end, which is productivity, will never work without a wider context. Humans are ends to themselves, and trying to optimize for "productive" diversity will always backfire. Diversity leads to both beauty and ugliness, productivity and stagnation, [thing-you-like] and [thing-you-don't-like] - you can't have one without the other.
  - jl6 4y ago
    I don’t know if diversity of thought/character/perspective is quantifiably measurable, but I can absolutely detect it by talking to someone for a few minutes.
    - paskozdilar 4y ago
      Perhaps you can. Perhaps your detection rate is close to 100%, too. But still, there's only one of you, so the method isn't scalable.
      - Gareth321 4y ago
        I think this is an excellent example of why trying to create KPIs based on diversity is asinine. People should be promoted and hired on the basis of ability. That's it.

With the following context: "Diversity" as a variable input to some bodies ability to problem solve. "Real" diversity are the dimensions that can vary and affect the above context. Different mental models/modes + patterns of human thought can be used to tackle problems in >diverse< and potentially unique ways. "Fake" diversity are the dimensions that can vary and not affect the above context. Superficial characteristics of a human person will not affect problem solving. "Fake" diversity can be used as a statistical measure for "real" diversity. A man and a women likely have different life experiences, resulting in different mental models ("real" diversity). A black person and a white person will likely have different life experiences, resulting in different mental models. Where this all goes awry is when you optimize for superficial diversity. You end up selecting against diversity of thought/character/non-superficial things over time. This sentence is based on conclusions around game theoretic optimization drawn from SSC Meditations on Moloch (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/).

paskozdilar 4y ago
Based on your definitions, would you agree that real diversity is immeasurable, and that the only way to foster real diversity is to allow "fake" diversity to thrive? Viewing diversity as a means to an end, which is productivity, will never work without a wider context. Humans are ends to themselves, and trying to optimize for "productive" diversity will always backfire. Diversity leads to both beauty and ugliness, productivity and stagnation, [thing-you-like] and [thing-you-don't-like] - you can't have one without the other.
- jl6 4y ago
  I don’t know if diversity of thought/character/perspective is quantifiably measurable, but I can absolutely detect it by talking to someone for a few minutes.
  - paskozdilar 4y ago
    Perhaps you can. Perhaps your detection rate is close to 100%, too. But still, there's only one of you, so the method isn't scalable.
    - Gareth321 4y ago
      I think this is an excellent example of why trying to create KPIs based on diversity is asinine. People should be promoted and hired on the basis of ability. That's it.