5 ms·

My greatest regret is not getting into this firm

CoolGuySteve 4y ago
There are a bunch of these firms. And when you pass the gauntlet, you realize that the people are smart but no smarter than at other firms. At some point, the strict hiring filter just produces noise. If anything, having that many achievers results in bored people doing things that are suboptimal for the performance of the firm as a whole. Whole divisions of wasted talent spawn and self perpetuate. It's the hiring process hazing ritual that sets the allure, there's not much else to it.
- idontpost 4y ago
  There's also the boat loads of money.
- Inconel 4y ago
  Don’t mean to hijack this thread but seeing as you have a background in the industry I was hoping you could answer a couple questions I had: 1. What do these firms typically look for in support staff? I’m asking about non trading/quant roles like recruiting/ops/facilities management? 2. What’s the potential upside, not specifically financial, but more along career growth and opportunities for different roles within the firm if you join in a support function? Appreciate any insight you may have.
  - simtel20 4y ago
    Often a background or a degree from a prestigious university in the arts. Bringing culture and energy to the office that focuses on people and humanity instead of competitive math type geeks. Some firms like to feel like patrons of the arts giving writers actors poets etc a better job than waiting tables while exposing the firm to there influences.
    - Inconel 4y ago
      Very much appreciate the insight. I don’t have good odds as a formerly homeless high school graduate, then again I wouldn’t have seen myself in my current job 5 years ago, so will most likely give it a try anyway.
      - oumua_don17 4y ago
        >> I don’t have good odds as a formerly homeless high school graduate, then again I wouldn’t have seen myself in my current job 5 years ago Shows that you are both courageous and smart with a positive, vibrant attitude. Thanks for sharing your positivity, much appreciated and more likely than not you will succeed in your try. Good luck :-)
  - defrost 4y ago
    You might have a focus-in ability to grind on details - that will play. There are many support roles, one is research, and that can mean sorting through a daily pile of a few thousand "documents" (ranging from a single paragraph to a thousand pages) and sorting them into groups, and then being able to rapidly summerise the salient features. This bleeds into training AI to do the same .. while remaining aware of the nature of the material to be a human check on the AI. There are also roles for people that can map or otherwise visualise data, pander to the needs of the core earners so that they never need reach far for what food, drink, personal life support they need, etc. If you're aiming for support you likely want to present your discretion and ability to seamlessly play well with others as dynamics and demands change.
  - noitpmeder 4y ago
    I wouldn't say most of these roles are anything different than you'd expect at most tech companies unless you are involved in the production trading/tech activity (trading-related ops, recruiting for traders/devs). Helpdesk/facilities usually isn't anything special.
  - kenned3 4y ago
    I've spent time at a very large and well known hedge fund and I also have family at JS. Regardless of what the individual you responded to thinks.. Firms like this have very difficult interview processes. They are looking for something "Special" and this excludes the vast majority of applications. I took a taxi to my interview, and the taxi driver himself told me he drives many people to the location for interviews, and drives a lot of unhappy people back (failed the interview). It should tell you something when even a local taxi driver knows how difficult it is to get into these places. I will try to answer your questions as well: 1) I did support work when i was at "hedge fund" - They want people who can think outside the box and be a culture fit. their culture is well known, and you either fit in or you don't. There is no "faking it". They generally hire fresh grades from ivy league schools. This way they can indoctrinate the culture. This is not always the case, but probably 70% of their employees were done this way. 2) Many of my former coworkers are now CEO's, COO's etc. Besides the money the culture encourages you to push past your limits and grow. One guy was a developer, he's now the CIO for an international makeup company.. At the firm I worked at, it did not matter what your role was. If you wanted to change groups, you would be given a fair chance to take the tests. if you passed, you were in the new role. The tests were INTENSE... but many "techs" moved to business roles over the years.
- keepquestioning 4y ago
  I'd be retired by now.
  - vecter 4y ago
    I don't know why you think that. Not everyone who makes in to these places comes out wildly rich. I know a smart guy from college who spent years as a team lead at a top HFT firm and wound up making less than most junior-level software engineers. You make what you kill, and not everyone is killing a lot.
md_ 4y ago
Fifteen years ago I had a job offer from Jane St sitting in my inbox, and I turned it down to work in tech. Could I have made more money at Jane St? No idea. Probably? But money isn't exactly holding me back right now. Would I have felt like I was working on interesting problems? For me, personally, I don't think so. I don't find abstract problems as interesting as I do practical ones, and, practically, working at Jane St is working to make a few rich guys incrementally richer. Not really a problem I'm interested in, I guess. (As an aside, it seems to me retention is much higher in tech than it is on Wall St. The rosy view of this seems to be that Wall St pays so well that everyone retires early, but then again, there's a reason they call it "compensation.") You have to make your own choices. Jane St has a gleaming reputation--and maybe, for you, it would have been a perfect match!--but not getting hired there seems to me to be a strange thing to consider a "greatest regret."
- david_allison 4y ago
  In my experience, retention in quant finance is much higher than in tech (barring a few firms) People don't leave.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    a high wage is a kind of golden handcuff
    - david_allison 4y ago
      I don't feel it's primarily about the money (but it helps). If it was about the money, it'd be the uncertainty of the bonus, rather than the wage itself.
srfvtgb 4y ago
So you didn't get as rich as you could have and might not get to retire at 30, go live your life. A friend of mine and I both applied for a HFT firm out of university, he got in and I didn't, but based on how he described it over about 18 months working there, my greatest regret would have been taking that job, it sounded like a dismal place to work (with platinum handcuffs).
- keepquestioning 4y ago
  Perhaps it would be worth it because he can retire 20 years earlier than you?
silverlake 4y ago
I interviewed at Jane Street a long time ago. Halfway thru they gave me an office tour. All employees were packed together on one side of the floor, screens everywhere, no personal space at all. I couldn’t see myself sitting there for 10 hrs/day. I limped thru the rest of the interview. Other firms and banks pay well too. The work is always boring though.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  companies are big on culture fit because of wanting people happy with being forced to spend their waking hours in those conditions inflexibly

There are a bunch of these firms. And when you pass the gauntlet, you realize that the people are smart but no smarter than at other firms. At some point, the strict hiring filter just produces noise. If anything, having that many achievers results in bored people doing things that are suboptimal for the performance of the firm as a whole. Whole divisions of wasted talent spawn and self perpetuate. It's the hiring process hazing ritual that sets the allure, there's not much else to it.

idontpost 4y ago
There's also the boat loads of money.
Inconel 4y ago
Don’t mean to hijack this thread but seeing as you have a background in the industry I was hoping you could answer a couple questions I had: 1. What do these firms typically look for in support staff? I’m asking about non trading/quant roles like recruiting/ops/facilities management? 2. What’s the potential upside, not specifically financial, but more along career growth and opportunities for different roles within the firm if you join in a support function? Appreciate any insight you may have.
- simtel20 4y ago
  Often a background or a degree from a prestigious university in the arts. Bringing culture and energy to the office that focuses on people and humanity instead of competitive math type geeks. Some firms like to feel like patrons of the arts giving writers actors poets etc a better job than waiting tables while exposing the firm to there influences.
  - Inconel 4y ago
    Very much appreciate the insight. I don’t have good odds as a formerly homeless high school graduate, then again I wouldn’t have seen myself in my current job 5 years ago, so will most likely give it a try anyway.
    - oumua_don17 4y ago
      >> I don’t have good odds as a formerly homeless high school graduate, then again I wouldn’t have seen myself in my current job 5 years ago Shows that you are both courageous and smart with a positive, vibrant attitude. Thanks for sharing your positivity, much appreciated and more likely than not you will succeed in your try. Good luck :-)
- defrost 4y ago
  You might have a focus-in ability to grind on details - that will play. There are many support roles, one is research, and that can mean sorting through a daily pile of a few thousand "documents" (ranging from a single paragraph to a thousand pages) and sorting them into groups, and then being able to rapidly summerise the salient features. This bleeds into training AI to do the same .. while remaining aware of the nature of the material to be a human check on the AI. There are also roles for people that can map or otherwise visualise data, pander to the needs of the core earners so that they never need reach far for what food, drink, personal life support they need, etc. If you're aiming for support you likely want to present your discretion and ability to seamlessly play well with others as dynamics and demands change.
- noitpmeder 4y ago
  I wouldn't say most of these roles are anything different than you'd expect at most tech companies unless you are involved in the production trading/tech activity (trading-related ops, recruiting for traders/devs). Helpdesk/facilities usually isn't anything special.
- kenned3 4y ago
  I've spent time at a very large and well known hedge fund and I also have family at JS. Regardless of what the individual you responded to thinks.. Firms like this have very difficult interview processes. They are looking for something "Special" and this excludes the vast majority of applications. I took a taxi to my interview, and the taxi driver himself told me he drives many people to the location for interviews, and drives a lot of unhappy people back (failed the interview). It should tell you something when even a local taxi driver knows how difficult it is to get into these places. I will try to answer your questions as well: 1) I did support work when i was at "hedge fund" - They want people who can think outside the box and be a culture fit. their culture is well known, and you either fit in or you don't. There is no "faking it". They generally hire fresh grades from ivy league schools. This way they can indoctrinate the culture. This is not always the case, but probably 70% of their employees were done this way. 2) Many of my former coworkers are now CEO's, COO's etc. Besides the money the culture encourages you to push past your limits and grow. One guy was a developer, he's now the CIO for an international makeup company.. At the firm I worked at, it did not matter what your role was. If you wanted to change groups, you would be given a fair chance to take the tests. if you passed, you were in the new role. The tests were INTENSE... but many "techs" moved to business roles over the years.
keepquestioning 4y ago
I'd be retired by now.
- vecter 4y ago
  I don't know why you think that. Not everyone who makes in to these places comes out wildly rich. I know a smart guy from college who spent years as a team lead at a top HFT firm and wound up making less than most junior-level software engineers. You make what you kill, and not everyone is killing a lot.

md_ 4y ago

Fifteen years ago I had a job offer from Jane St sitting in my inbox, and I turned it down to work in tech. Could I have made more money at Jane St? No idea. Probably? But money isn't exactly holding me back right now. Would I have felt like I was working on interesting problems? For me, personally, I don't think so. I don't find abstract problems as interesting as I do practical ones, and, practically, working at Jane St is working to make a few rich guys incrementally richer. Not really a problem I'm interested in, I guess. (As an aside, it seems to me retention is much higher in tech than it is on Wall St. The rosy view of this seems to be that Wall St pays so well that everyone retires early, but then again, there's a reason they call it "compensation.") You have to make your own choices. Jane St has a gleaming reputation--and maybe, for you, it would have been a perfect match!--but not getting hired there seems to me to be a strange thing to consider a "greatest regret."

david_allison 4y ago
In my experience, retention in quant finance is much higher than in tech (barring a few firms) People don't leave.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  a high wage is a kind of golden handcuff
  - david_allison 4y ago
    I don't feel it's primarily about the money (but it helps). If it was about the money, it'd be the uncertainty of the bonus, rather than the wage itself.

srfvtgb 4y ago

So you didn't get as rich as you could have and might not get to retire at 30, go live your life. A friend of mine and I both applied for a HFT firm out of university, he got in and I didn't, but based on how he described it over about 18 months working there, my greatest regret would have been taking that job, it sounded like a dismal place to work (with platinum handcuffs).

keepquestioning 4y ago
Perhaps it would be worth it because he can retire 20 years earlier than you?

silverlake 4y ago

I interviewed at Jane Street a long time ago. Halfway thru they gave me an office tour. All employees were packed together on one side of the floor, screens everywhere, no personal space at all. I couldn’t see myself sitting there for 10 hrs/day. I limped thru the rest of the interview. Other firms and banks pay well too. The work is always boring though.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
companies are big on culture fit because of wanting people happy with being forced to spend their waking hours in those conditions inflexibly