3 ms·

I'm sorry to say this, but you really couldn't be more wrong here. Electronic shifting has been a huge milestone in cycling. It's better than traditional cable

by cheeze 4y ago

I'm sorry to say this, but you really couldn't be more wrong here. Electronic shifting has been a huge milestone in cycling. It's better than traditional cable shifting in almost every way.

jamesliudotcc 4y ago
It's a tradeoff. The most recent 11 speed mechanical from Shimano is really superb--if you keep it maintained. The electronic stuff stays true if you don't maintain it, but is a pain to set up. And if anything goes wrong, it is an expensive trip to the shop. If you fancy yourself a competent home mechanic, and enjoy working on bikes, it is a step backward. (Though, internal cable routing has taken all the joy out of working on bikes.) For me, it is about lever feel. The up and down shifts are too close together. I've had this happen before, where I meant to shift down. Didn't work, so I press the button again, it is yet worse. Oh, I shifted the wrong direction, but now it is quite steep and I am quite misgeared. And shifting under load is bad for the system even if a motor drives the mech. Now i make that mistake less often, but I am still generally displeased about Di2. (Why am I on it then? My frame won't accept mechanical shift cables, and SRAM was out of stock. And I really wanted that bike.) Also, nobody really needs 12 speeds. 1x13, you can almost cover the same range as 2x10 but keep the same ratio between shifts (there are a lot of redundancies in 2x10). And then no more front shifting. 1x14 and you are there. Wake me up when that happens. Yes, Campy Ekar, I know.
- exabrial 4y ago
  1x12 in Mountain Biking is one of the best innovations to happen in the last couple of years. The reason is sequential shifting.... Sequential shifting is a "nice to have" in gravel and road biking... but for MTB is a must. You need an absurdly larger climbing gear on MTB (51-52 tooth) for climbing and wheelie-ing the front off the ground while on inclines. You need a relatively small gear for some speed on downhills and to load the suspension. And because the terrain changes rapidly, you need to fly between the combinations quickly and any point on the cassette. Being able to dump a few gears and quickly pull them back in a few seconds later is a trick you can't pull off with a 2x setup. It's a party trick a 1x12 does in practice and still gives you reasonable jumps between gears. A 1x12 is also a pound or two lighter than a 2x setup. It also is _far_ more reliable... Dropping a chain with a big-little chainring is unheard of and this can be done without a chain guide or bash guard. Losing these two components is another weight savings... You also can't do big-litle chainrings with a 2x setup, because it's nearly impossible to derail the chain. Finally, and maybe most importantly, a 1x12 free up cockpit space for a dropper lever on the left side or a suspension lockout lever (if you're into that).
  - SavageBeast 4y ago
    I still miss having a big ring for the times I want to ride to the trail. A 39 up front and a 11-12 out back just isn't fast enough for that kind of thing. There are a good many trails where having a big ring makes sense too. The current hot setup is too focused on the lower end of the range and totally gave up the high end. I recently bought a 105 level road bike with wide tire clearances and stuck the largest gravel tire I could fit on there and use that in place of my MTB for riding the gravel paths around town. It's nice to be going fast again. MTB manufacturers listen up - make frame clearances support larger than a 39 tooth ring up front. People like me will thank you. Also - back in the 3 ring / 10 speed days I was riding full XT and chain drops were a similar non-issue then too.
    - exabrial 4y ago
      39 up front??? How fast are you going man
      - SavageBeast 4y ago
        Im a Texan and its relatively flat here. We have some undulations and rises but not too many real climbs here. A 39 is the max the average Santa Cruz supports - Im running a mere 36 on my Salsa Timberjack because one more tooth and I got a frame grinder. It's adequate but if you're out on a ride with an equally fit friend with a 39 you just get smoked. Now knowing that 700c roadie wheels and 29" MTB wheels are the same circumference ... riding a roadie on gravel with a 48 up front and a 11 out back is comparatively fucking fast!!! Im not going to take any "real trails" on the thing but as the gravel path around the lake goes - fitness rides etc - it hauls ass like my old MTBs that had the similar gearing. I really miss it to be honest.
dfcowell 4y ago
I’m sure it’s a better shifting experience, but I’d never tour with a Di2 shifter. I was doing a group cycling tour with 3 friends, one of whom had a Di2 GRX shifter. He pinched the Di2 cable in the rear axle when reassembling his bike and shorted the whole system. Needed to replace everything. That ended the trip for him, had to go back into town and get it fixed. The system might provide a better shifting experience, but from a durability and field-repair standpoint I think mechanical shifting still has the edge.
- dijonman2 4y ago
  This is the crux of my uninformed opinion. It sounds like it makes sense for competition but touring and commuting requires reliability.

by cheeze 4y ago

I'm sorry to say this, but you really couldn't be more wrong here. Electronic shifting has been a huge milestone in cycling. It's better than traditional cable shifting in almost every way.

jamesliudotcc 4y ago

It's a tradeoff. The most recent 11 speed mechanical from Shimano is really superb--if you keep it maintained. The electronic stuff stays true if you don't maintain it, but is a pain to set up. And if anything goes wrong, it is an expensive trip to the shop. If you fancy yourself a competent home mechanic, and enjoy working on bikes, it is a step backward. (Though, internal cable routing has taken all the joy out of working on bikes.) For me, it is about lever feel. The up and down shifts are too close together. I've had this happen before, where I meant to shift down. Didn't work, so I press the button again, it is yet worse. Oh, I shifted the wrong direction, but now it is quite steep and I am quite misgeared. And shifting under load is bad for the system even if a motor drives the mech. Now i make that mistake less often, but I am still generally displeased about Di2. (Why am I on it then? My frame won't accept mechanical shift cables, and SRAM was out of stock. And I really wanted that bike.) Also, nobody really needs 12 speeds. 1x13, you can almost cover the same range as 2x10 but keep the same ratio between shifts (there are a lot of redundancies in 2x10). And then no more front shifting. 1x14 and you are there. Wake me up when that happens. Yes, Campy Ekar, I know.

exabrial 4y ago
1x12 in Mountain Biking is one of the best innovations to happen in the last couple of years. The reason is sequential shifting.... Sequential shifting is a "nice to have" in gravel and road biking... but for MTB is a must. You need an absurdly larger climbing gear on MTB (51-52 tooth) for climbing and wheelie-ing the front off the ground while on inclines. You need a relatively small gear for some speed on downhills and to load the suspension. And because the terrain changes rapidly, you need to fly between the combinations quickly and any point on the cassette. Being able to dump a few gears and quickly pull them back in a few seconds later is a trick you can't pull off with a 2x setup. It's a party trick a 1x12 does in practice and still gives you reasonable jumps between gears. A 1x12 is also a pound or two lighter than a 2x setup. It also is _far_ more reliable... Dropping a chain with a big-little chainring is unheard of and this can be done without a chain guide or bash guard. Losing these two components is another weight savings... You also can't do big-litle chainrings with a 2x setup, because it's nearly impossible to derail the chain. Finally, and maybe most importantly, a 1x12 free up cockpit space for a dropper lever on the left side or a suspension lockout lever (if you're into that).
- SavageBeast 4y ago
  I still miss having a big ring for the times I want to ride to the trail. A 39 up front and a 11-12 out back just isn't fast enough for that kind of thing. There are a good many trails where having a big ring makes sense too. The current hot setup is too focused on the lower end of the range and totally gave up the high end. I recently bought a 105 level road bike with wide tire clearances and stuck the largest gravel tire I could fit on there and use that in place of my MTB for riding the gravel paths around town. It's nice to be going fast again. MTB manufacturers listen up - make frame clearances support larger than a 39 tooth ring up front. People like me will thank you. Also - back in the 3 ring / 10 speed days I was riding full XT and chain drops were a similar non-issue then too.
  - exabrial 4y ago
    39 up front??? How fast are you going man
    - SavageBeast 4y ago
      Im a Texan and its relatively flat here. We have some undulations and rises but not too many real climbs here. A 39 is the max the average Santa Cruz supports - Im running a mere 36 on my Salsa Timberjack because one more tooth and I got a frame grinder. It's adequate but if you're out on a ride with an equally fit friend with a 39 you just get smoked. Now knowing that 700c roadie wheels and 29" MTB wheels are the same circumference ... riding a roadie on gravel with a 48 up front and a 11 out back is comparatively fucking fast!!! Im not going to take any "real trails" on the thing but as the gravel path around the lake goes - fitness rides etc - it hauls ass like my old MTBs that had the similar gearing. I really miss it to be honest.

dfcowell 4y ago

I’m sure it’s a better shifting experience, but I’d never tour with a Di2 shifter. I was doing a group cycling tour with 3 friends, one of whom had a Di2 GRX shifter. He pinched the Di2 cable in the rear axle when reassembling his bike and shorted the whole system. Needed to replace everything. That ended the trip for him, had to go back into town and get it fixed. The system might provide a better shifting experience, but from a durability and field-repair standpoint I think mechanical shifting still has the edge.

dijonman2 4y ago
This is the crux of my uninformed opinion. It sounds like it makes sense for competition but touring and commuting requires reliability.