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>You won't convince someone to build a new apartment building if they can't make money You don't really need to. Do what Singapore (or Vienna) did. Create a Ho

>You won't convince someone to build a new apartment building if they can't make money You don't really need to. Do what Singapore (or Vienna) did. Create a Housing and Development board, build the housing that you need... and that's about it. These bizarre contortions that people go through of schemes and tax credits and mechanisms, it's the same as the healthcare sector, one single bloated mess.

dv_dt 4y ago
When you look at the model that Germany is following in some areas, it seems like a nice long term way to stabilize housing prices. https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/07/germany-mietshauser-syndikat-property-housing https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/07/germany-mietshauser-syndika...
axus 4y ago
Government housing projects had a bad outcome in the US... "The Projects".
- newfonewhodis 4y ago
  Your statement isn't wrong but can be misconstrued to imply that government housing led to bad outcomes. I very strongly suggest reading through citations of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing_in_the_United_States#Social_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing_in_the_Unit.... tl;dr: "The Projects" were primarily concentrated outside of major economic centers, were left out of public transportation (and other) infrastructure projects. Mix in the government sanctioned racism and segregation of economic groups, "The Projects" in the US were doomed before they even started.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  Here is a nice article that compares public housing between the USA, Singapore, and Vienna and talks about how the USA could do better. https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/public-housing-works-lessons-from-vienna-and-singapore https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/p...
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
> You don't really need to. Do what Singapore (or Vienna) did. Create a Housing and Development board, build the housing that you need... and that's about it. Unless you can explain how that's different from what the Warsaw Pact did, or show that the Warsaw Pact housing, while horrible, was still better than what the free market would produce, then I'm not going to sign up for your solution.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rodgerd 4y ago
  It's pretty clear that no evidence would convince you to abandon your zealotry, because otherwise you'd make the trivial effort required to discover that Vienna or Singapore do not look like the Warsaw Pact.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    > It's pretty clear that no evidence would convince you to abandon your zealotry... Personal attacks are not cool here. > ... because otherwise you'd make the trivial effort required to discover that Vienna or Singapore do not look like the Warsaw Pact. I know they don't look like the Warsaw Pact. But the policy that Barrin92 is proposing sounds like Vienna, but also sounds like the Warsaw Pact. In one place it works; in one place it produced monstrosities. My question is: If we adopt this policy, why do we think we're going to get Vienna's outcome instead of the Warsaw Pact's?
- Barrin92 4y ago
  it isn't really. Eastern bloc housing looks butt ugly but it was cheap and equitable. Singapore's just richer and probably hired an interior designer. The problems start when you try to centrally manage every box of cornflakes you make, not national infrastructure. I'll go one further and tell you there is no such thing as free market housing and never has been, just like there's no free market submarine or free market interstate highway. These are big governmental and corporate projects and at best the market shuffles the occupants around after the fact. Every project like that is communist even in the good old US of A, just don't run the entire country that way and you're golden.

dv_dt 4y ago

When you look at the model that Germany is following in some areas, it seems like a nice long term way to stabilize housing prices. https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/07/germany-mietshauser-syndikat-property-housing https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/07/germany-mietshauser-syndika...

axus 4y ago

Government housing projects had a bad outcome in the US... "The Projects".

newfonewhodis 4y ago
Your statement isn't wrong but can be misconstrued to imply that government housing led to bad outcomes. I very strongly suggest reading through citations of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing_in_the_United_States#Social_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing_in_the_Unit.... tl;dr: "The Projects" were primarily concentrated outside of major economic centers, were left out of public transportation (and other) infrastructure projects. Mix in the government sanctioned racism and segregation of economic groups, "The Projects" in the US were doomed before they even started.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Here is a nice article that compares public housing between the USA, Singapore, and Vienna and talks about how the USA could do better. https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/public-housing-works-lessons-from-vienna-and-singapore https://charterforcompassion.org/shareable-community-ideas/p...

AnimalMuppet 4y ago

> You don't really need to. Do what Singapore (or Vienna) did. Create a Housing and Development board, build the housing that you need... and that's about it. Unless you can explain how that's different from what the Warsaw Pact did, or show that the Warsaw Pact housing, while horrible, was still better than what the free market would produce, then I'm not going to sign up for your solution.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rodgerd 4y ago
It's pretty clear that no evidence would convince you to abandon your zealotry, because otherwise you'd make the trivial effort required to discover that Vienna or Singapore do not look like the Warsaw Pact.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  > It's pretty clear that no evidence would convince you to abandon your zealotry... Personal attacks are not cool here. > ... because otherwise you'd make the trivial effort required to discover that Vienna or Singapore do not look like the Warsaw Pact. I know they don't look like the Warsaw Pact. But the policy that Barrin92 is proposing sounds like Vienna, but also sounds like the Warsaw Pact. In one place it works; in one place it produced monstrosities. My question is: If we adopt this policy, why do we think we're going to get Vienna's outcome instead of the Warsaw Pact's?
Barrin92 4y ago
it isn't really. Eastern bloc housing looks butt ugly but it was cheap and equitable. Singapore's just richer and probably hired an interior designer. The problems start when you try to centrally manage every box of cornflakes you make, not national infrastructure. I'll go one further and tell you there is no such thing as free market housing and never has been, just like there's no free market submarine or free market interstate highway. These are big governmental and corporate projects and at best the market shuffles the occupants around after the fact. Every project like that is communist even in the good old US of A, just don't run the entire country that way and you're golden.