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Singapore's criticism will always come from 'White Educated Liberals'. If you are earning a comfortable 6 figure salary in a developed nation, living in an ext

Singapore's criticism will always come from 'White Educated Liberals'. If you are earning a comfortable 6 figure salary in a developed nation, living in an extremely safe neighborhood with access to great education and healthcare, you kind assume all those things are easy and the only thing that matters is food/music diversity and counter-culture. For the rest of 7,950,000,000 people on earth, any country that provides safety, basic food, health, decent education is a heaven and wouldn't mind if their own country is like Singapore

DubiousPusher 4y ago
I don't think this is a fair observation. I grew up in poverty in the U.S. and even in those days I found the stories of Singapore's authoritarian oppression disturbing. Would I have traded my chilly and mouldering aluminum sides trailer for a clean Singaporean public works apartment and a jackboot hovering around my ass? I'm not sure I would. Now, I'm not sure it was as bad as the stories made it sound. Let's be real. Some amount of what we heard was sensationalized for storytelling effect but don't completely discount that people will forgo material comforts for dignity, honor and autonomy.
- licebmi__at__ 4y ago
  Not trying to diminish your experience, but you might want to put in balance that a lot of people in the south of US actually risk their lives crossing the border for a chance of living in US poverty.
  - DubiousPusher 4y ago
    Yeah to be very clear, poverty in the U.S. is better than poverty a lot of places. I'm sure there are levels of poverty where one would accept basically any draconian measure if it meant eating on the regular. But that's not the point I was pushing back on. It was this > For the rest of 7,950,000,000 people on earth, any country that provides safety, basic food, health, decent education is a heaven and wouldn't mind if their own country is like Singapore
bergenty 4y ago
So your argument is authoritarianism is better than abject poverty? A lot of the world lives there but when people get to a certain standard of living everyone still wants the basics that America offers.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  Every government is authoritarian to some extent. The question is how much liberty are you willing to give up in exchange for long-term stability and comfort? To me, absolute liberty seems to be just as wrong of an answer as absolute authoritarianism.
inopinatus 4y ago
Sorry, this crass and trivially rebutted generalisation wasn't quite sweeping or divisive enough. Would you mind turning up the gratuitous dogma next time? Parochial culture warriors of all creeds will feed gratefully on the hyperbole.
hnick 4y ago
That's a bit much. I know more than a few Singaporeans who left for Australia for university and never went back. Some started families here and didn't consider taking their kids back for schooling. I wouldn't say freedom was high on any of their lists explicitly, but they talk about things like the casual culture and work life balance that are all related to it. The arts also aren't high on their list, but a few of them had some things to say when Singapore Idol was being advertised back in the day. They didn't think they'd find a single decent singer due to their country's lack of investment or respect for the arts which was ingrained in them from their schooling. It was a running joke for a while.

DubiousPusher 4y ago

I don't think this is a fair observation. I grew up in poverty in the U.S. and even in those days I found the stories of Singapore's authoritarian oppression disturbing. Would I have traded my chilly and mouldering aluminum sides trailer for a clean Singaporean public works apartment and a jackboot hovering around my ass? I'm not sure I would. Now, I'm not sure it was as bad as the stories made it sound. Let's be real. Some amount of what we heard was sensationalized for storytelling effect but don't completely discount that people will forgo material comforts for dignity, honor and autonomy.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago
Not trying to diminish your experience, but you might want to put in balance that a lot of people in the south of US actually risk their lives crossing the border for a chance of living in US poverty.
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  Yeah to be very clear, poverty in the U.S. is better than poverty a lot of places. I'm sure there are levels of poverty where one would accept basically any draconian measure if it meant eating on the regular. But that's not the point I was pushing back on. It was this > For the rest of 7,950,000,000 people on earth, any country that provides safety, basic food, health, decent education is a heaven and wouldn't mind if their own country is like Singapore

bergenty 4y ago

So your argument is authoritarianism is better than abject poverty? A lot of the world lives there but when people get to a certain standard of living everyone still wants the basics that America offers.

babypuncher 4y ago
Every government is authoritarian to some extent. The question is how much liberty are you willing to give up in exchange for long-term stability and comfort? To me, absolute liberty seems to be just as wrong of an answer as absolute authoritarianism.

inopinatus 4y ago

Sorry, this crass and trivially rebutted generalisation wasn't quite sweeping or divisive enough. Would you mind turning up the gratuitous dogma next time? Parochial culture warriors of all creeds will feed gratefully on the hyperbole.

hnick 4y ago

That's a bit much. I know more than a few Singaporeans who left for Australia for university and never went back. Some started families here and didn't consider taking their kids back for schooling. I wouldn't say freedom was high on any of their lists explicitly, but they talk about things like the casual culture and work life balance that are all related to it. The arts also aren't high on their list, but a few of them had some things to say when Singapore Idol was being advertised back in the day. They didn't think they'd find a single decent singer due to their country's lack of investment or respect for the arts which was ingrained in them from their schooling. It was a running joke for a while.