4 ms·

More time to play in white water river parks and more time well wasted on ski lifts. I sometimes chat with tourists and listen when they tell me what is importa

More time to play in white water river parks and more time well wasted on ski lifts. I sometimes chat with tourists and listen when they tell me what is important to them. 'Deliberately ignorant' is your value judgment. Spend some time in rural eastern Europe, and the perspective changes for the better. Media propaganda is simply unimportant.

tootie 4y ago
I don't understand this at all. Work and family restrict my travel. Reading news on my phone is inherently portable. And I'm not sure what visiting rural Easter Europe is supposed to prove. A lot of it is engulfed in war and I can't imagine those people are better off being completely ignorant of what Russia is doing. Certainly many of them are to everyone else's detriment. Media propaganda is obviously a bad thing, but reading credible news isn't. Unless you want to descend into abject solipsism
- ben_w 4y ago
  Are you going to do anything about the war in eastern Europe? If the news causes no change in your actions, you might as well have put a small pebble in front of the phone and had it, instead of your eyes, absorb the photons emitted by the screen.
  - landemva 4y ago
    You suggest I do what? I could talk to people about two decades of NATO encroachment on (shall not be spoken) R. Or discuss with people how in the weeks prior to conflict, VP Harris was in Munich and said Ukraine should join NATO. Or discuss how comedian and Vogue model Zelinsky said Ukraine should re-acquire nuclear weapons. While true, none of those fit the rythmn of the mainstream narrative.
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      Well, joining NATO at this point seems like a wise decision, don't you agree? If you want to call it "NATO encroachment on Russia", why doesn't Russia attack NATO then? Why the hell would Ukraine join NATO? I thought Russia was their brother? Any idea why they would want to join NATO? Ah! Maybe it's because they don't want to be invaded by the brother neighbour that likes to invade little countries around them. NATO expansion is Russia's fault, don't be stupid and claim otherwise. Look at how this war already quickly expanded NATO. Keep listening to your Russian propaganda.
    - tootie 4y ago
      I'm not sure what you're getting at aside from asserting Russian propaganda. Ukraine has every right join NATO and if Russia thinks that's a provocation then they should take a look in the mirror. NATO isn't a mutual defense association, not an anti-Russia club. The only reason they think so is because they keep invading countries.
      - landemva 4y ago
        February 20 Zelensky in Munich started to talk back the 1994 no-nukes agreement. https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14001201000618/Ukraine-Threaens-Rennce-Is-Nn-Nclear-Sas https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14001201000618/Ukraine-Threa... https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000... Donbas vote on self-autonomy has curiously not been allowed. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49903996 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49903996 "Proposed in 2016 by Germany's then-foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the plan details free and fair elections in the east under Ukrainian law, verification by the OSCE international security organisation, and then self-governing status in return." 'Ukraine has every right join NATO ...' Maybe. Just as Cuba had every right to host USSR nuclear missiles in 1962? 'Why the hell would Ukraine join NATO? I thought Russia was their brother?' Yes, eastern Ukraine aligns with R. Western Ukraine hates R. The movie 'Mr. Jones' may enlighten you about the starvation, and the NYT propaganda at the time.
        ben_w 4y ago
        Fun fact: the USSR asked to join NATO.
        tootie 4y ago
        Maybe Nazi Germany had a right to the Sudetenland? You can't just make these assertions as though we're talking hypothetically. Maybe in 2019 you could pass this bs but now that Russia went and invaded and is indiscriminately killing and kidnapping civilians it's beyond question that Russia is an unequivocal bad guy and Ukraine missed a chance to better protect themselves because Europe was too timid.
        4y ago
    - ben_w 4y ago
      I'm suggesting you limit your news to things which are actionable rather than affective.
      - blangk 4y ago
        How does one achieve this goal?
        ben_w 4y ago
        I feel I am missing something in your question, because all I can think is "repeated application of introspection and willpower", but I suspect that if that type of answer sufficed then you would not have needed to ask.
  - fleddr 4y ago
    I think this is a brilliant remark, although it likely will be taken the wrong way. I've personally come to the conclusion that us humans aren't designed to take on the misery of the entire human population, and that we should stop projecting this assumption. If there's no difference between caring and not caring, we should be quite a lot more humble in virtue signaling, or best just shut up.
- spacemark 4y ago
  Yes, deliberate ignorance pendulum swings too far. Of course "free" information is not very useful because someone else is paying for it, motivated by their interests not yours. So do the adult thing and don't throw up your hands and give up, instead pay just a bit for useful information. That way you know a bit more about who is funding it and why.
- elenaferrantes 4y ago
  "Media propaganda is obviously a bad thing, but reading credible news isn't." I would tend to agree with you but since Covid hysteria I do not believe in mainstream media anymore. So that’s an issue because I’m not able to find credible news anymore.

tootie 4y ago

I don't understand this at all. Work and family restrict my travel. Reading news on my phone is inherently portable. And I'm not sure what visiting rural Easter Europe is supposed to prove. A lot of it is engulfed in war and I can't imagine those people are better off being completely ignorant of what Russia is doing. Certainly many of them are to everyone else's detriment. Media propaganda is obviously a bad thing, but reading credible news isn't. Unless you want to descend into abject solipsism

ben_w 4y ago
Are you going to do anything about the war in eastern Europe? If the news causes no change in your actions, you might as well have put a small pebble in front of the phone and had it, instead of your eyes, absorb the photons emitted by the screen.
- landemva 4y ago
  You suggest I do what? I could talk to people about two decades of NATO encroachment on (shall not be spoken) R. Or discuss with people how in the weeks prior to conflict, VP Harris was in Munich and said Ukraine should join NATO. Or discuss how comedian and Vogue model Zelinsky said Ukraine should re-acquire nuclear weapons. While true, none of those fit the rythmn of the mainstream narrative.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Well, joining NATO at this point seems like a wise decision, don't you agree? If you want to call it "NATO encroachment on Russia", why doesn't Russia attack NATO then? Why the hell would Ukraine join NATO? I thought Russia was their brother? Any idea why they would want to join NATO? Ah! Maybe it's because they don't want to be invaded by the brother neighbour that likes to invade little countries around them. NATO expansion is Russia's fault, don't be stupid and claim otherwise. Look at how this war already quickly expanded NATO. Keep listening to your Russian propaganda.
  - tootie 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you're getting at aside from asserting Russian propaganda. Ukraine has every right join NATO and if Russia thinks that's a provocation then they should take a look in the mirror. NATO isn't a mutual defense association, not an anti-Russia club. The only reason they think so is because they keep invading countries.
    - landemva 4y ago
      February 20 Zelensky in Munich started to talk back the 1994 no-nukes agreement. https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14001201000618/Ukraine-Threaens-Rennce-Is-Nn-Nclear-Sas https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/14001201000618/Ukraine-Threa... https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000... Donbas vote on self-autonomy has curiously not been allowed. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49903996 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49903996 "Proposed in 2016 by Germany's then-foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the plan details free and fair elections in the east under Ukrainian law, verification by the OSCE international security organisation, and then self-governing status in return." 'Ukraine has every right join NATO ...' Maybe. Just as Cuba had every right to host USSR nuclear missiles in 1962? 'Why the hell would Ukraine join NATO? I thought Russia was their brother?' Yes, eastern Ukraine aligns with R. Western Ukraine hates R. The movie 'Mr. Jones' may enlighten you about the starvation, and the NYT propaganda at the time.
      - ben_w 4y ago
        Fun fact: the USSR asked to join NATO.
      - tootie 4y ago
        Maybe Nazi Germany had a right to the Sudetenland? You can't just make these assertions as though we're talking hypothetically. Maybe in 2019 you could pass this bs but now that Russia went and invaded and is indiscriminately killing and kidnapping civilians it's beyond question that Russia is an unequivocal bad guy and Ukraine missed a chance to better protect themselves because Europe was too timid.
      - 4y ago
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I'm suggesting you limit your news to things which are actionable rather than affective.
    - blangk 4y ago
      How does one achieve this goal?
      - ben_w 4y ago
        I feel I am missing something in your question, because all I can think is "repeated application of introspection and willpower", but I suspect that if that type of answer sufficed then you would not have needed to ask.
- fleddr 4y ago
  I think this is a brilliant remark, although it likely will be taken the wrong way. I've personally come to the conclusion that us humans aren't designed to take on the misery of the entire human population, and that we should stop projecting this assumption. If there's no difference between caring and not caring, we should be quite a lot more humble in virtue signaling, or best just shut up.
spacemark 4y ago
Yes, deliberate ignorance pendulum swings too far. Of course "free" information is not very useful because someone else is paying for it, motivated by their interests not yours. So do the adult thing and don't throw up your hands and give up, instead pay just a bit for useful information. That way you know a bit more about who is funding it and why.
elenaferrantes 4y ago
"Media propaganda is obviously a bad thing, but reading credible news isn't." I would tend to agree with you but since Covid hysteria I do not believe in mainstream media anymore. So that’s an issue because I’m not able to find credible news anymore.