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Is this the same Trump who said he trusts Mr. Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies? Let's not kid ourselves that he had nothing but making himself lo

Is this the same Trump who said he trusts Mr. Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies? Let's not kid ourselves that he had nothing but making himself look good in mind when he said those "warnings".

yucky 4y ago
Was he wrong? After all, now we know the role the US played in the coup (sorry, perfectly organic color revolution) in Ukraine in 2014[0], and I don't think our intelligence agencies were vey forthcoming with that information... And yet by 2016 when he took office it was known we were fucking with their internal politics too[1], using "totally not the CIA" organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy[2] and USAID[3]. This is not a new playbook, we have to realize every foreign government knows exactly what we're doing right? We can only pay people to look the other way for so long until a line is crossed. Whelp, apparently we discovered the line. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) [2] https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democracy-deletes-records-of-funding-projects-in-ukraine/ https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democ... [3] https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_agency https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_a...
- lostmsu 4y ago
  Am. Role? You mean US dared to talk to participants in the coup? And by "fucking with their internal politics" you mean funded a non-profit, that was trying to expose rampant election fraud?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    FYI, the account that you are replying to has a long track record of "pushing a certain talking point" on this topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-26079957&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... You are not going to persuade them. Here is the delayed but inevitable result: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857
- karmakurtisaani 4y ago
  Trump took Putin's word that Russia did not meddle in the US election.
- rasz 4y ago
  To be fair US was also messing with Poland internal affairs in the 80s. https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/18/world/reagan-and-pope-reportedly-conferred-on-poland.html https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/18/world/reagan-and-pope-rep... >President Ronald Reagan signed a secret order in May 1982 that authorized an array of economic, diplomatic and covert measures to _destabilize the Government of Poland_ and begin to break the Soviet Union's dominance of Eastern Europe, Time magazine reported this week. >The secret order, National Security Decision Directive 32, set in motion aid to the Solidarity movement, more vigorous promotion of human rights, economic pressure and diplomatic isolation of the Communist Government, the article said. >The report in Time adds many new details, particularly the role of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Roman Catholic Church in opening networks across which telephones, fax machines, printing presses, photocopiers, computers and intelligence information moved to Solidarity. Thanks to this I can buy bread, washing machine or a car without waiting in a queue, signing up on a list or waiting for a government grand. Meanwhile in a shithole russia: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-tv-segment-family-who-bought-new-car-coffin-money-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-tv-segment-family-who... https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/18/7358790/ https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/18/7358790/
  - yucky 4y ago
    This is a different argument though. You're making an argument about which system is better. I'm saying that Putin was telling the truth when he complained about the US interfering in their elections first, and our intelligence agencies were lying when they claimed we don't do the same thing we accused Russia of doing to us. So when Trump said he believed Putin in that instance, he was correct.

yucky 4y ago

Was he wrong? After all, now we know the role the US played in the coup (sorry, perfectly organic color revolution) in Ukraine in 2014[0], and I don't think our intelligence agencies were vey forthcoming with that information... And yet by 2016 when he took office it was known we were fucking with their internal politics too[1], using "totally not the CIA" organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy[2] and USAID[3]. This is not a new playbook, we have to realize every foreign government knows exactly what we're doing right? We can only pay people to look the other way for so long until a line is crossed. Whelp, apparently we discovered the line. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) [2] https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democracy-deletes-records-of-funding-projects-in-ukraine/ https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democ... [3] https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_agency https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_a...

lostmsu 4y ago
Am. Role? You mean US dared to talk to participants in the coup? And by "fucking with their internal politics" you mean funded a non-profit, that was trying to expose rampant election fraud?
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  FYI, the account that you are replying to has a long track record of "pushing a certain talking point" on this topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-26079957&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... You are not going to persuade them. Here is the delayed but inevitable result: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857
karmakurtisaani 4y ago
Trump took Putin's word that Russia did not meddle in the US election.
rasz 4y ago
To be fair US was also messing with Poland internal affairs in the 80s. https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/18/world/reagan-and-pope-reportedly-conferred-on-poland.html https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/18/world/reagan-and-pope-rep... >President Ronald Reagan signed a secret order in May 1982 that authorized an array of economic, diplomatic and covert measures to _destabilize the Government of Poland_ and begin to break the Soviet Union's dominance of Eastern Europe, Time magazine reported this week. >The secret order, National Security Decision Directive 32, set in motion aid to the Solidarity movement, more vigorous promotion of human rights, economic pressure and diplomatic isolation of the Communist Government, the article said. >The report in Time adds many new details, particularly the role of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Roman Catholic Church in opening networks across which telephones, fax machines, printing presses, photocopiers, computers and intelligence information moved to Solidarity. Thanks to this I can buy bread, washing machine or a car without waiting in a queue, signing up on a list or waiting for a government grand. Meanwhile in a shithole russia: https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-tv-segment-family-who-bought-new-car-coffin-money-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-tv-segment-family-who... https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/18/7358790/ https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/18/7358790/
- yucky 4y ago
  This is a different argument though. You're making an argument about which system is better. I'm saying that Putin was telling the truth when he complained about the US interfering in their elections first, and our intelligence agencies were lying when they claimed we don't do the same thing we accused Russia of doing to us. So when Trump said he believed Putin in that instance, he was correct.