4 ms·

Let's name names. Trump, the abovementioned president, at the UN in 2018 warns that Germany is endangering itself by increasing dependence on Russia. German env

by TMWNN 4y ago

Let's name names. Trump, the abovementioned president, at the UN in 2018 warns that Germany is endangering itself by increasing dependence on Russia. German envoys laugh <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwgepe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJv9QYrlwgepe>, including foreign minister Heiko Maas, today enjoying a quiet retirement back home in Saarland.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rvz 4y ago
Now, they are really quiet today and are still struggling to admit their foolishness, since they have now realised years later that they have become Europe's biggest fools, such that it's even more embarrassing to them that it also came directly from Trump, alongside with other points he specifically made at the time which aged like fine wine. So Germany will indeed learn the hard way, despite ignoring the repeated warnings.
legitster 4y ago
The last few presidents have said the same thing - here's Obama in 2014: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit/obama-tells-eu-to-do-more-to-cut-reliance-on-russian-gas-idUSBREA2P0W220140326 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit/obama-tells... Trump also yanked the rug out from under the TPP which effectively locked in our manufacturing relationship with China, so glass houses and all that.
- leereeves 4y ago
  The TPP was widely opposed before Trump stopped it. Then the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd reversed their position and started claiming the TPP was a good thing. https://www.rockagainstthetpp.org/ https://www.rockagainstthetpp.org/ https://www.artistsagainsttpp.org/ https://www.artistsagainsttpp.org/ https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-against-the-trans-pacific-partnership-agreement https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-against-the-trans-pacif... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-im-against-the-tpp_b_6831518 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-im-against-the-tpp_b_6831... https://progressive.org/latest/tpp-another-trade-scam/ https://progressive.org/latest/tpp-another-trade-scam/ https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-opposes-tpp/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-oppo...
  - legitster 4y ago
    > The TPP was widely opposed before Trump stopped it. Agreed. Progressives are equally culpable. Though I never really heard many outlets reverse their opinions. I think people just largely forgot about the TPP. > Then the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd To the contrary, I do not understand the crowd that shows up to a conversation about the time and insists on bringing their broken clock.
    - leereeves 4y ago
      There were very good reasons why people opposed the TPP. The devil was in the details. Even Biden said (in 2019) that he would not rejoin the TPP as it was initially put forward, and would insist that we renegotiate pieces of that. > insists on bringing their broken clock. I assume you're suggesting that the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd doesn't exist? To the contrary, their influence is so great that even Thomas Friedman, a vocal opponent of Trump, felt it necessary to call them out: "One of the hardest things to accept for all of us who want Donald Trump to be a one-term president is the fact that some things are true even if Donald Trump believes them!" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/trump-trade-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/trump-trade-china...
      - legitster 4y ago
        I understand that the TPP is politically dead. But hand waving over details on the specific tariffs on suits from Singapore is misdirection. It was fundamentally an agreement to form a trade block against China. If we politically cared more about the details, then we really didn't care about China. > I assume you're suggesting that the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd doesn't exist? I'm not. But I also don't understand the driving need to give a specific politician credit for doing something normal. Someone quoted Trump's opinion, several of us pointed out that it's not particularly novel or unique, and now we are being lectured about how absolutes are wrong? Are his words somehow divine that his opinions deserve to be discussed?
        leereeves 4y ago
- throwoutway 4y ago
  Hillary was also opposed to TPP so it would have been the same result either way.
karmakurtisaani 4y ago
Is this the same Trump who said he trusts Mr. Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies? Let's not kid ourselves that he had nothing but making himself look good in mind when he said those "warnings".
- yucky 4y ago
  Was he wrong? After all, now we know the role the US played in the coup (sorry, perfectly organic color revolution) in Ukraine in 2014[0], and I don't think our intelligence agencies were vey forthcoming with that information... And yet by 2016 when he took office it was known we were fucking with their internal politics too[1], using "totally not the CIA" organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy[2] and USAID[3]. This is not a new playbook, we have to realize every foreign government knows exactly what we're doing right? We can only pay people to look the other way for so long until a line is crossed. Whelp, apparently we discovered the line. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) [2] https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democracy-deletes-records-of-funding-projects-in-ukraine/ https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democ... [3] https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_agency https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_a...
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    Am. Role? You mean US dared to talk to participants in the coup? And by "fucking with their internal politics" you mean funded a non-profit, that was trying to expose rampant election fraud?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      FYI, the account that you are replying to has a long track record of "pushing a certain talking point" on this topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-26079957&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... You are not going to persuade them. Here is the delayed but inevitable result: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857

by TMWNN 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rvz 4y ago

Now, they are really quiet today and are still struggling to admit their foolishness, since they have now realised years later that they have become Europe's biggest fools, such that it's even more embarrassing to them that it also came directly from Trump, alongside with other points he specifically made at the time which aged like fine wine. So Germany will indeed learn the hard way, despite ignoring the repeated warnings.

legitster 4y ago

The last few presidents have said the same thing - here's Obama in 2014: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit/obama-tells-eu-to-do-more-to-cut-reliance-on-russian-gas-idUSBREA2P0W220140326 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-eu-summit/obama-tells... Trump also yanked the rug out from under the TPP which effectively locked in our manufacturing relationship with China, so glass houses and all that.

leereeves 4y ago
The TPP was widely opposed before Trump stopped it. Then the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd reversed their position and started claiming the TPP was a good thing. https://www.rockagainstthetpp.org/ https://www.rockagainstthetpp.org/ https://www.artistsagainsttpp.org/ https://www.artistsagainsttpp.org/ https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-against-the-trans-pacific-partnership-agreement https://act.eff.org/action/speak-out-against-the-trans-pacif... https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-im-against-the-tpp_b_6831518 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-im-against-the-tpp_b_6831... https://progressive.org/latest/tpp-another-trade-scam/ https://progressive.org/latest/tpp-another-trade-scam/ https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-opposes-tpp/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2015/10/07/politics/hillary-clinton-oppo...
- legitster 4y ago
  > The TPP was widely opposed before Trump stopped it. Agreed. Progressives are equally culpable. Though I never really heard many outlets reverse their opinions. I think people just largely forgot about the TPP. > Then the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd To the contrary, I do not understand the crowd that shows up to a conversation about the time and insists on bringing their broken clock.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    There were very good reasons why people opposed the TPP. The devil was in the details. Even Biden said (in 2019) that he would not rejoin the TPP as it was initially put forward, and would insist that we renegotiate pieces of that. > insists on bringing their broken clock. I assume you're suggesting that the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd doesn't exist? To the contrary, their influence is so great that even Thomas Friedman, a vocal opponent of Trump, felt it necessary to call them out: "One of the hardest things to accept for all of us who want Donald Trump to be a one-term president is the fact that some things are true even if Donald Trump believes them!" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/trump-trade-china.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/trump-trade-china...
    - legitster 4y ago
      I understand that the TPP is politically dead. But hand waving over details on the specific tariffs on suits from Singapore is misdirection. It was fundamentally an agreement to form a trade block against China. If we politically cared more about the details, then we really didn't care about China. > I assume you're suggesting that the "everything Trump does is wrong" crowd doesn't exist? I'm not. But I also don't understand the driving need to give a specific politician credit for doing something normal. Someone quoted Trump's opinion, several of us pointed out that it's not particularly novel or unique, and now we are being lectured about how absolutes are wrong? Are his words somehow divine that his opinions deserve to be discussed?
      - leereeves 4y ago
throwoutway 4y ago
Hillary was also opposed to TPP so it would have been the same result either way.

karmakurtisaani 4y ago

Is this the same Trump who said he trusts Mr. Putin's word over his own intelligence agencies? Let's not kid ourselves that he had nothing but making himself look good in mind when he said those "warnings".

yucky 4y ago
Was he wrong? After all, now we know the role the US played in the coup (sorry, perfectly organic color revolution) in Ukraine in 2014[0], and I don't think our intelligence agencies were vey forthcoming with that information... And yet by 2016 when he took office it was known we were fucking with their internal politics too[1], using "totally not the CIA" organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy[2] and USAID[3]. This is not a new playbook, we have to realize every foreign government knows exactly what we're doing right? We can only pay people to look the other way for so long until a line is crossed. Whelp, apparently we discovered the line. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golos_(election_monitor) [2] https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democracy-deletes-records-of-funding-projects-in-ukraine/ https://mronline.org/2022/03/08/national-endowment-for-democ... [3] https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_agency https://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/4/is_usaid_the_new_cia_a...
- lostmsu 4y ago
  Am. Role? You mean US dared to talk to participants in the coup? And by "fucking with their internal politics" you mean funded a non-profit, that was trying to expose rampant election fraud?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    FYI, the account that you are replying to has a long track record of "pushing a certain talking point" on this topic. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-europe-26079957&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... You are not going to persuade them. Here is the delayed but inevitable result: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32326857