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The article is a bit sensationalistic Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. Yes, the industries will have a harder time

The article is a bit sensationalistic Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. Yes, the industries will have a harder time, but for example, shifting generation from gas to even coal can save gas where it's needed > the premier of the state of Saxony from the opposition conservatives. “If we aren’t careful, Germany could become deindustrialized,” Oh that's cute. Where was this guy when this happened? https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/closing-wind-turbine-plant-eastern-germany-raises-questions-about-coal-regions-future https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/closing-wind-turbine-pl... (mostly because of NIMBYism). I guess you reap what you sow

oneoff786 4y ago
A lot of German industry runs on gas. They literally won’t work otherwise.
lettergram 4y ago
> The article is a bit sensationalistic Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. Just so the situation is clear, half of Germany energy is imported from Russia. Russia just turned off the taps, so you’re looking at a shortfall of 30-40% for winter (assuming it doesn’t restart). What does this mean for people on the ground? Energy prices can easily go 10x (so a $300 bill becomes $3000/month). You’d have to drop the heating of your home by 20 degrees and you’ll still be seeing $1000/month bills. Not to mention, this will force companies to shutdown. Energy costs are too high to maintain production. So you’ll see people losing their jobs AND having crazy bills. This will impact everything across the board - food, goods, etc. https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany
- bildung 4y ago
  > Just so the situation is clear, half of Germany energy is imported from Russia. Not energy, but only gas. > What does this mean for people on the ground? Energy prices can easily go 10x (so a $300 bill becomes $3000/month). Almost no household pays $300 for heating here. We life in a large flat and paid 120€/month last year (including warming all water for the year). > You’d have to drop the heating of your home by 20 degrees and you’ll still be seeing $1000/month bills. If we drop heating altogether our flat cools down to 11°C during winter (found out the hard way because our heating system broke down during winter a few years ago), so reducing heating by 100% means a delta of 9°C. Reducing target temperature to 18°C instead of 20°C would save perhaps 25% of gas. I personally expect increases of about 1000€ for the whole heating season for our household (i.e. about triple costs). The German depencence on gas is bad for multiple reasons, but your numbers are quite hyberbolic.
  - lettergram 4y ago
    Read the links. Germany gets ~50% of its gas from Russia, ~50% of its oil from Russia and ~50% of its coal from Russia. Together ~85% of the energy of Germany comes from oil, coal and gas combined Nuclear was just phased out and I assume wind / solar made up for the differential. Wind often stops, particularly in winter. I’m not familiar on the particular turbines in Germany - but Canada mentions this: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/energy-sources-distribution/renewables/wind-energy/wind-energy-cold-climates/7321 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/energy-sources-distribution/r... So 30-45% of German energy comes directly from Russia. Potentially more during winter. Regardless, you’re looking at it through the lens of your flat. That may not be representative. For instance, I’d your flat is next to other flats operating at 20C then I’d expect your flat to stay relatively warmer compared to the outside air. If everyone drops, it drops dramatically. The average $300/month bill may have been a poor basis (let’s take your €120/month), but the magnitude change imo is more likely to 10x still. Energy prices change on the margin, there hasn’t been a crunch yet; but there will be - barring some agreement with Russia.
TMWNN 4y ago
>The article is a bit sensationalistic >Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. As others told you, this is completely wrong. If you don't believe said state premier, how about the head of Germany's federation of unions <https://www.businessinsider.com/germany-faces-entire-industries-collapse-russia-natural-gas-supply-cuts-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/germany-faces-entire-industr...>: >"Entire industries are in danger of collapsing permanently because of the gas bottlenecks: aluminum, glass, the chemical industry," Fahimi, the head of the German Federation of Trade Unions, told Bild am Sonntag. "Such a collapse would have massive consequences for the entire economy and jobs in Germany." Russian gas is used in Germany for * heating homes * powering factories * feedstock for those factories
- Ekaros 4y ago
  And who thought that entering economic warfare with country that can kill your entire economy is a smart idea...
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    Those that are not completely naive and know that there are consequences for letting the bullies roam free
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      So why take stance now? And not back 20 years ago when even bigger and meaner bully started couple wars?
petre 4y ago
> Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. They've been already been doing that to save money. We have friends there, they sleep at 18°C. I don't expect them to sleep at 16°C now.
- tharkun__ 4y ago
  I do wonder. Who sleeps at more than 20C? If night time temps stay at or above 20 everyone complains about "tropical nights" and that it's too hot to sleep. So I don't expect people to heat to 20 for sleeping. Do they actually do that? I'd totally overheat. 18C is totally enough a d 16C is totally OK as well. That said, this is for the bed room. I wouldn't want to get up and sit at the breakfast table at 16C. That should stay comfy.
  - petre 4y ago
    My partner does. 20C is okay for us in the bedroom. If I lower it she complains about getting a cold due to inhaling cold air. We stayed at our friends in Germany at the beginning of November and she did catch a cold. It probably takes a bit of getting used to.
    - tharkun__ 4y ago
      Of course it will differ between people. Not trying to say anything about say people with asthma etc. I've slept in 0F (about -18C) and all I felt was a little "chilly feeling" in the lung area but everything was totally fine. This was outside. Of course you make sure that everything else is warm, including especially the head, where you loose a lot of warmth actually. I bet it wasn't the fact that the air she was breathing that was 'cold' but that she got cold overall.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

oneoff786 4y ago

A lot of German industry runs on gas. They literally won’t work otherwise.

lettergram 4y ago

> The article is a bit sensationalistic Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. Just so the situation is clear, half of Germany energy is imported from Russia. Russia just turned off the taps, so you’re looking at a shortfall of 30-40% for winter (assuming it doesn’t restart). What does this mean for people on the ground? Energy prices can easily go 10x (so a $300 bill becomes $3000/month). You’d have to drop the heating of your home by 20 degrees and you’ll still be seeing $1000/month bills. Not to mention, this will force companies to shutdown. Energy costs are too high to maintain production. So you’ll see people losing their jobs AND having crazy bills. This will impact everything across the board - food, goods, etc. https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://ourworldindata.org/energy/country/germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_Germany

bildung 4y ago
> Just so the situation is clear, half of Germany energy is imported from Russia. Not energy, but only gas. > What does this mean for people on the ground? Energy prices can easily go 10x (so a $300 bill becomes $3000/month). Almost no household pays $300 for heating here. We life in a large flat and paid 120€/month last year (including warming all water for the year). > You’d have to drop the heating of your home by 20 degrees and you’ll still be seeing $1000/month bills. If we drop heating altogether our flat cools down to 11°C during winter (found out the hard way because our heating system broke down during winter a few years ago), so reducing heating by 100% means a delta of 9°C. Reducing target temperature to 18°C instead of 20°C would save perhaps 25% of gas. I personally expect increases of about 1000€ for the whole heating season for our household (i.e. about triple costs). The German depencence on gas is bad for multiple reasons, but your numbers are quite hyberbolic.
- lettergram 4y ago
  Read the links. Germany gets ~50% of its gas from Russia, ~50% of its oil from Russia and ~50% of its coal from Russia. Together ~85% of the energy of Germany comes from oil, coal and gas combined Nuclear was just phased out and I assume wind / solar made up for the differential. Wind often stops, particularly in winter. I’m not familiar on the particular turbines in Germany - but Canada mentions this: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/energy-sources-distribution/renewables/wind-energy/wind-energy-cold-climates/7321 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/energy-sources-distribution/r... So 30-45% of German energy comes directly from Russia. Potentially more during winter. Regardless, you’re looking at it through the lens of your flat. That may not be representative. For instance, I’d your flat is next to other flats operating at 20C then I’d expect your flat to stay relatively warmer compared to the outside air. If everyone drops, it drops dramatically. The average $300/month bill may have been a poor basis (let’s take your €120/month), but the magnitude change imo is more likely to 10x still. Energy prices change on the margin, there hasn’t been a crunch yet; but there will be - barring some agreement with Russia.

TMWNN 4y ago

>The article is a bit sensationalistic >Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. As others told you, this is completely wrong. If you don't believe said state premier, how about the head of Germany's federation of unions <https://www.businessinsider.com/germany-faces-entire-industries-collapse-russia-natural-gas-supply-cuts-2022-7 https://www.businessinsider.com/germany-faces-entire-industr...>: >"Entire industries are in danger of collapsing permanently because of the gas bottlenecks: aluminum, glass, the chemical industry," Fahimi, the head of the German Federation of Trade Unions, told Bild am Sonntag. "Such a collapse would have massive consequences for the entire economy and jobs in Germany." Russian gas is used in Germany for * heating homes * powering factories * feedstock for those factories

Ekaros 4y ago
And who thought that entering economic warfare with country that can kill your entire economy is a smart idea...
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Those that are not completely naive and know that there are consequences for letting the bullies roam free
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    So why take stance now? And not back 20 years ago when even bigger and meaner bully started couple wars?

petre 4y ago

> Germans will put a sweater inside their houses and turn the thermostat down. They've been already been doing that to save money. We have friends there, they sleep at 18°C. I don't expect them to sleep at 16°C now.

tharkun__ 4y ago
I do wonder. Who sleeps at more than 20C? If night time temps stay at or above 20 everyone complains about "tropical nights" and that it's too hot to sleep. So I don't expect people to heat to 20 for sleeping. Do they actually do that? I'd totally overheat. 18C is totally enough a d 16C is totally OK as well. That said, this is for the bed room. I wouldn't want to get up and sit at the breakfast table at 16C. That should stay comfy.
- petre 4y ago
  My partner does. 20C is okay for us in the bedroom. If I lower it she complains about getting a cold due to inhaling cold air. We stayed at our friends in Germany at the beginning of November and she did catch a cold. It probably takes a bit of getting used to.
  - tharkun__ 4y ago
    Of course it will differ between people. Not trying to say anything about say people with asthma etc. I've slept in 0F (about -18C) and all I felt was a little "chilly feeling" in the lung area but everything was totally fine. This was outside. Of course you make sure that everything else is warm, including especially the head, where you loose a lot of warmth actually. I bet it wasn't the fact that the air she was breathing that was 'cold' but that she got cold overall.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]