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I hope this doesn't escalate into a full blown war. It's easy to stay calm when the gas is still flowing but when winter comes Germany will want to end the Ukra

I hope this doesn't escalate into a full blown war. It's easy to stay calm when the gas is still flowing but when winter comes Germany will want to end the Ukraine invasion and so will pressure everyone involved to finish it off. Since giving up on Ukraine is not an option, forcing Putin out is the only way. Not sure how that is going to be resolved/achieved.

nailer 4y ago
YarickR2 4y ago
- Fargoan 4y ago
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I don't think dragged is right description. Willingly and gleefully entered is much closer. The price is starting to tally up. Let's see if voters are ready to pay it all.
- jakubadamw 4y ago
  Cute. I take it you're not aware of the elephant in the room which is the corruption of the German political (and, even more so, business) elites by the Russian energy lobby. At the regional level we're talking about people like SPD's Manuela Schwesig and the "Klima und Umweltschutz" (Climate and Environment Protection) foundation¹, and at the high-level political level – about people like Gerhard Schröder who, in exchange for his Ribbentrop-Molotov-style tight energy cooperation with Russia, was awarded board seats at Nord Stream AG and Russia's Rosneft. But I guess that's not corruption? By the way, the very reason Russia invaded Ukraine is because Ukraine is on a relentless path to successful democratisation, deoligarchization and, yes, reduction, slow or not, of corruption. Russia wouldn't care if Ukraine was to stay _like_ Russia, corrupted and undemocratic. Russians invaded precisely because Ukraine was demonstrating it was (and is!) becoming European, adopting the European standards of the rule of law and a healthy market economy. The last thing Russia wants is a successful democracy at its doorstep, especially in a country that it claims (however falsely) it shares historical heritage with. ¹ https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-government-conceals-gazprom-connection-controversial-environmental-foundation-beneficial-ownership https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-governme...
- yalogin 4y ago
  Corrupt Ukraine government? Can you explain? I am not aware of that allegation before
  - YarickR2 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine "Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries in 2021, the second most corrupt in Europe, with Russia the most at 136"
rasz 4y ago
Its already a full blown war, with civilians being targeted with cruise missiles (Kalibr). https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/27/ukraine-shopping-mall-russian-strike-kremenchuk/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/27/ukraine-shop... Do you mean a war where proper Germans die?

nailer 4y ago

YarickR2 4y ago

Fargoan 4y ago
Ekaros 4y ago
I don't think dragged is right description. Willingly and gleefully entered is much closer. The price is starting to tally up. Let's see if voters are ready to pay it all.
jakubadamw 4y ago
Cute. I take it you're not aware of the elephant in the room which is the corruption of the German political (and, even more so, business) elites by the Russian energy lobby. At the regional level we're talking about people like SPD's Manuela Schwesig and the "Klima und Umweltschutz" (Climate and Environment Protection) foundation¹, and at the high-level political level – about people like Gerhard Schröder who, in exchange for his Ribbentrop-Molotov-style tight energy cooperation with Russia, was awarded board seats at Nord Stream AG and Russia's Rosneft. But I guess that's not corruption? By the way, the very reason Russia invaded Ukraine is because Ukraine is on a relentless path to successful democratisation, deoligarchization and, yes, reduction, slow or not, of corruption. Russia wouldn't care if Ukraine was to stay _like_ Russia, corrupted and undemocratic. Russians invaded precisely because Ukraine was demonstrating it was (and is!) becoming European, adopting the European standards of the rule of law and a healthy market economy. The last thing Russia wants is a successful democracy at its doorstep, especially in a country that it claims (however falsely) it shares historical heritage with. ¹ https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-government-conceals-gazprom-connection-controversial-environmental-foundation-beneficial-ownership https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-governme...
yalogin 4y ago
Corrupt Ukraine government? Can you explain? I am not aware of that allegation before
- YarickR2 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine "Ukraine ranked 122nd out of 180 countries in 2021, the second most corrupt in Europe, with Russia the most at 136"

rasz 4y ago

Its already a full blown war, with civilians being targeted with cruise missiles (Kalibr). https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/27/ukraine-shopping-mall-russian-strike-kremenchuk/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/27/ukraine-shop... Do you mean a war where proper Germans die?