3 ms·

I downvoted you for using racism accusations as a tool to shut down opinions you disagree with. This is no way to have a discussion; in fact it's downright insu

by seabee 15y ago

I downvoted you for using racism accusations as a tool to shut down opinions you disagree with. This is no way to have a discussion; in fact it's downright insulting to anyone who thinks critically and likes to explore differing views. Unless you are looking to increase your population you don't design policy to encourage immigration, you design policy to improve the lives of people already living there (indigenous or not). After all the government has invested in these people prior to working via services and schools. It is not xenophobic to put your needs ahead of those outside the country or suggest it should be so. The reason the price of labour doesn't increase needs only a simple answer; that demand is met by supply from an open economy and free movement of labour. This benefits immigrants from weaker economies, of course, but also German businesses who employ them. If the EU did not have this freedom, ordinary Germans would be better off, but we would all lose out for three reasons described by DuncanIdaho.

barrkel 15y ago
First up, Islamophobia is distinct from racism; what's more, it's unfortunately fairly acceptable in the public discourse, in many countries, including the US. You're right that I disagree with it; I think right-thinking people should. But it hardly shut down discussion: you have replied. Furthermore, I don't actually think tsotha was being Islamophobic, just that that was a potential misreading; it seemed slightly xenophobic at best, given the reality that a combination of healthy market for labour and an economy open to free movement of labour naturally gives rise to immigration. Plenty of countries design policies to encourage immigration, of the right people, for different values of "right". Your assertion seems to me to be flat out wrong; the qualification of "looking to increase your population" seems semantically meaningless in this context, as it is assumed in encouraging immigration. I also strongly dispute your assertion that if the EU didn't have freedom of labour, then ordinary Germans would be better off, on far more grounds than DuncanIdaho. Germans would be at least worse off from lacking freedom of labour themselves (these things are normally reciprocal); and they'd have a lot fewer opportunities to trade, and more obstacles, without all the rest of what the EU brings to the table. Furthermore, the character of the European continent would be dramatically different; I think it's questionable that it would have been as peaceful has it has been. Germany would still be split without the EU, for one thing.

by seabee 15y ago

barrkel 15y ago

First up, Islamophobia is distinct from racism; what's more, it's unfortunately fairly acceptable in the public discourse, in many countries, including the US. You're right that I disagree with it; I think right-thinking people should. But it hardly shut down discussion: you have replied. Furthermore, I don't actually think tsotha was being Islamophobic, just that that was a potential misreading; it seemed slightly xenophobic at best, given the reality that a combination of healthy market for labour and an economy open to free movement of labour naturally gives rise to immigration. Plenty of countries design policies to encourage immigration, of the right people, for different values of "right". Your assertion seems to me to be flat out wrong; the qualification of "looking to increase your population" seems semantically meaningless in this context, as it is assumed in encouraging immigration. I also strongly dispute your assertion that if the EU didn't have freedom of labour, then ordinary Germans would be better off, on far more grounds than DuncanIdaho. Germans would be at least worse off from lacking freedom of labour themselves (these things are normally reciprocal); and they'd have a lot fewer opportunities to trade, and more obstacles, without all the rest of what the EU brings to the table. Furthermore, the character of the European continent would be dramatically different; I think it's questionable that it would have been as peaceful has it has been. Germany would still be split without the EU, for one thing.