5 ms·

This is probably the book I loved the most that was an absolute pain to read. I got no pleasure from reading the book but a lot of the concepts and ideas are gr

This is probably the book I loved the most that was an absolute pain to read. I got no pleasure from reading the book but a lot of the concepts and ideas are great. It's just a slog. I've heard the sequel is good but I've put off reading it for years because I don't want to go through it again.

Verdex 4y ago
I enjoyed Blindsight, but I really did not enjoy Echopraxia. It feels like it sort of undoes some of the conclusions in Blindsight. While at the same time failing to do very much with its own conclusions and ideas. Watts' Freeze Frame Revolution (set in a different universe iirc) feels like a better book to follow up Blindsight with, personally.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  Part of the whole point of Blindsight is that the reliability of the narrator is explicitly suspect on a couple of different levels.
  - Verdex 4y ago
    The twist of Blindsight is that a fundamental assumption about the nature of intelligence is false. The book takes a very long time setting this up and then it hammers it into both the reader and the protagonist. It seems to be saying, "Hey this is a big deal and you're not going to accept it, so I'm going to shovel it down your throat with a snow plow." In Echopraxia they have the same idea, but it's trivialized in a blink and you miss it throwaway line and accepted as fact by everyone. I get that the author didn't want to just retread the same ground over and over. However, I feel it's a mistake to trivialize something that a bunch of post human super savants were surprised by.
- AlwaysRock 4y ago
  Will check out Freeze Frame Revolution. Thanks.
deanCommie 4y ago
Hard same. I ended up spoiling myself on the entire plot and the "big concepts" to justify to myself that it's worth it to go see the execution. The author watched too many "Cinemasins"-like teardowns/nitpicks of books/movies where characters have a conversation about something that wouldn't happen in real life because they would both know it already (but it's exposition for the audience) and thought "Yes, I will have NONE of that." SO instead there is absolutely zero exposition or world-building. You're just dropped into a heavy jargon filled environment that has a narrator who refuses to explain any of the terms or concepts (which are frequently VERY interesting once you go read some wikis). It's a great way to avoid being nitpicked by pedantic nerds, but it's no way to write an enjoyable work of fiction.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  I highly disagree. Peter Watts has lots of explanatory segments, but he uses them for building his world and characters, not for teaching you stuff you can already go learn about in this world. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I really like his writing style and have read Blindsight multiple times.
  - Verdex 4y ago
    I agree with you, but at the same time. Like, you have to admit that Blindsight is not going to be a book for everyone. I think the book is fantastic. I've read it at least three times, and I expect that I'm going to read it at least a few more times. However, I'm not showing it to anyone who hasn't already displayed an appetite for hard scifi.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      I recommend Blindsight frequently. It isn't for everyone, but I think there are a wide variety of types of people who would enjoy it, including those who tend to read more non-fiction than fiction. In my opinion, the payoff from that book is high enough that it is worth recommending it to a few people who won't like it. I also think that people too frequently don't try things because they or someone else thinks they won't like it. I'm a big fan of people pushing their comfort zone and trying new things.
buildbot 4y ago
I feel exactly the same as you about the first book, I would say the sequel is actually much more engaging as well. I struggled to finish the first one, and finished the second probably 2x as fast.
martin82 4y ago
Exactly the same here. And the sequel is even worse.
sph 4y ago
Oh, I thought it was just me being too dumb for that book. Which is a shame, because as a big fan of hard scifi, Blightsight aliens are truly alien. But the prose was so dense and abstract I could not visualise anything the author was trying to convey.
mypastself 4y ago
I read it right after attempting to wade through an impenetrable late-career Greg Egan science- textbook-masquerading-as-novel, so it was a breeze in comparison. Haven’t picked up the sequel, though.

Verdex 4y ago

I enjoyed Blindsight, but I really did not enjoy Echopraxia. It feels like it sort of undoes some of the conclusions in Blindsight. While at the same time failing to do very much with its own conclusions and ideas. Watts' Freeze Frame Revolution (set in a different universe iirc) feels like a better book to follow up Blindsight with, personally.

shkkmo 4y ago
Part of the whole point of Blindsight is that the reliability of the narrator is explicitly suspect on a couple of different levels.
- Verdex 4y ago
  The twist of Blindsight is that a fundamental assumption about the nature of intelligence is false. The book takes a very long time setting this up and then it hammers it into both the reader and the protagonist. It seems to be saying, "Hey this is a big deal and you're not going to accept it, so I'm going to shovel it down your throat with a snow plow." In Echopraxia they have the same idea, but it's trivialized in a blink and you miss it throwaway line and accepted as fact by everyone. I get that the author didn't want to just retread the same ground over and over. However, I feel it's a mistake to trivialize something that a bunch of post human super savants were surprised by.
AlwaysRock 4y ago
Will check out Freeze Frame Revolution. Thanks.

deanCommie 4y ago

Hard same. I ended up spoiling myself on the entire plot and the "big concepts" to justify to myself that it's worth it to go see the execution. The author watched too many "Cinemasins"-like teardowns/nitpicks of books/movies where characters have a conversation about something that wouldn't happen in real life because they would both know it already (but it's exposition for the audience) and thought "Yes, I will have NONE of that." SO instead there is absolutely zero exposition or world-building. You're just dropped into a heavy jargon filled environment that has a narrator who refuses to explain any of the terms or concepts (which are frequently VERY interesting once you go read some wikis). It's a great way to avoid being nitpicked by pedantic nerds, but it's no way to write an enjoyable work of fiction.

shkkmo 4y ago
I highly disagree. Peter Watts has lots of explanatory segments, but he uses them for building his world and characters, not for teaching you stuff you can already go learn about in this world. I'm sorry you don't enjoy his work, but I really like his writing style and have read Blindsight multiple times.
- Verdex 4y ago
  I agree with you, but at the same time. Like, you have to admit that Blindsight is not going to be a book for everyone. I think the book is fantastic. I've read it at least three times, and I expect that I'm going to read it at least a few more times. However, I'm not showing it to anyone who hasn't already displayed an appetite for hard scifi.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    I recommend Blindsight frequently. It isn't for everyone, but I think there are a wide variety of types of people who would enjoy it, including those who tend to read more non-fiction than fiction. In my opinion, the payoff from that book is high enough that it is worth recommending it to a few people who won't like it. I also think that people too frequently don't try things because they or someone else thinks they won't like it. I'm a big fan of people pushing their comfort zone and trying new things.

buildbot 4y ago

I feel exactly the same as you about the first book, I would say the sequel is actually much more engaging as well. I struggled to finish the first one, and finished the second probably 2x as fast.

martin82 4y ago

Exactly the same here. And the sequel is even worse.

sph 4y ago

Oh, I thought it was just me being too dumb for that book. Which is a shame, because as a big fan of hard scifi, Blightsight aliens are truly alien. But the prose was so dense and abstract I could not visualise anything the author was trying to convey.

mypastself 4y ago

I read it right after attempting to wade through an impenetrable late-career Greg Egan science- textbook-masquerading-as-novel, so it was a breeze in comparison. Haven’t picked up the sequel, though.