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> and can even see polarization of light? our good friends the Cephalopods! I’m sorry what?? That’s possible? That’s incredible. Anyone have any speculation on

> and can even see polarization of light? our good friends the Cephalopods! I’m sorry what?? That’s possible? That’s incredible. Anyone have any speculation on what that would look like?

Winsaucerer 4y ago
This is a question which I don't think anyone can even speculate at. It's similar to the question 'what is it like to be a bat?', [1] or, what might a colour that no one's seen before look like? Some people (such as myself) like to distinguish between the physical processes that are involved in the biology of (say) sensory perception, and then the phenomenology. The biology involves things like light waves, retinas, neurons, etc. The phenomenology is the "what it's like". The following is a controversial claim for reductive physicalists who believe everything reduces to the physical, but here goes: there is no way to go from the facts about the physical world alone to any statement about the phenomenology. The problem with answering the question of what that would be like to see polarised light is hopeless. It's so hopeless that if we had two separate species that could "see" the polarisation of light, we would have no way of even telling if the "what it's like" for one of those species is the same as the next. Maybe for one it's similar to how we see colours, and for another it's similar to what it's like for us to hear sounds. Or maybe it's a completely alien kind of phenomenology with analogy to human experience. The "easy" question is the biology. We can investigate whether an organism's sensory systems are sensitive to the polarisation of light or not, and if it's done via an eye-like organ, then we might say it "sees" light, even if we have no idea if the phenomenology is anything like our vision. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F
cromulent 4y ago
It seems to be well established that bees see polarized light. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3049011/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3049011/

> and can even see polarization of light? our good friends the Cephalopods! I’m sorry what?? That’s possible? That’s incredible. Anyone have any speculation on what that would look like?

Winsaucerer 4y ago

This is a question which I don't think anyone can even speculate at. It's similar to the question 'what is it like to be a bat?', [1] or, what might a colour that no one's seen before look like? Some people (such as myself) like to distinguish between the physical processes that are involved in the biology of (say) sensory perception, and then the phenomenology. The biology involves things like light waves, retinas, neurons, etc. The phenomenology is the "what it's like". The following is a controversial claim for reductive physicalists who believe everything reduces to the physical, but here goes: there is no way to go from the facts about the physical world alone to any statement about the phenomenology. The problem with answering the question of what that would be like to see polarised light is hopeless. It's so hopeless that if we had two separate species that could "see" the polarisation of light, we would have no way of even telling if the "what it's like" for one of those species is the same as the next. Maybe for one it's similar to how we see colours, and for another it's similar to what it's like for us to hear sounds. Or maybe it's a completely alien kind of phenomenology with analogy to human experience. The "easy" question is the biology. We can investigate whether an organism's sensory systems are sensitive to the polarisation of light or not, and if it's done via an eye-like organ, then we might say it "sees" light, even if we have no idea if the phenomenology is anything like our vision. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_It_Like_to_Be_a_Bat%3F

cromulent 4y ago

It seems to be well established that bees see polarized light. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3049011/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3049011/