4 ms·

It was never taboo to criticize pro-ana groups. Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. Not medically speaking, anyway. Maybe they were considered such in the past.

by jquery 4y ago

It was never taboo to criticize pro-ana groups. Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. Not medically speaking, anyway. Maybe they were considered such in the past. Go far enough back and we used bloodletting as a common treatment, our understanding generally improves with time. I have no desire to go back to an era where lgbt people were persecuted. With respect to your other point. “Children” is a broad category. Pre-pubescents are not “changing sex”. Instead we are being encouraged to respect their gender identity, and not reject gender-non conforming behaviors [1]. Teens may take puberty blockers to buy time, this also isn’t “changing sex”. Perhaps HRT is what you mean by changing sex, and yes some teenagers are able to access the HRT of their preferred gender. The science on this is pretty clear, that suicide rates of trans people is drastically lowered when in a gender-supportive environment, and their mental well-being is infinitely better. [1] I implore you to watch this video: https://youtu.be/h60YLGDJ6n0 https://youtu.be/h60YLGDJ6n0 Edit: despite what a child comment I cannot reply to is saying, while over-medicalization and misdiagnosis is definitely something to watch out for (being gender-nonconforming is not the same as being trans and this is why education about lgbt issues is important), the vast majority of transgender youth do not suffer from an overabundance of societal and medical acceptance for their issues. Puberty blockers are indeed not a drug to prescribe lightly. Same with SRS, it should not be handed out like candy. People who have only had gender dysphoria for a short time may indeed be better served by a “wait and see” approach. All of these things I can agree with. If you are under the impression that being trans isn’t stigmatized enough and all the kids might turn trans if we aren’t careful, I’m simply going to disagree with you. There’s no evidence of this.

deepdriver 4y ago
- Dobbs 4y ago
  - deepdriver 4y ago
    - Dobbs 4y ago
      The daily signal is not a reputable source for anything, and most definitely not for trans related topics. Keira Bell purposefully lied and ignored all guidance and gatekeeping she was given; as she has openly admitted. She proceeded with transitioning, and then decided she was wrong. Kiera Bell won her initial court case against tavistock and got puberty blockers banned. This ruling has been overruled. The ruling was in direct contradiction Gillick competency, and made zero sense in light of all case law in the UK. Re tavistock: > In March, a review of gender identity services for young people led by the paediatrician Hilary Cass confirmed what everyone knew: that the service was under “unsustainable pressure” as demand outstripped capacity, resulting in overwhelmed staff and waiting lists of up to two years that left young people at considerable risk of distress and deteriorating mental health. > Cass recommended the creation of a network of regional hubs to provide care and support, a recommendation accepted by the NHS. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-gender-identity-clinic-is-closing-what-happens-next https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-ge...
      - deepdriver 4y ago
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
naravara 4y ago
> Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. Not medically speaking, anyway. Medically defining what an "illness" is can get into a lot of squirrely philosophical questions that aren't really scientifically or objectively answerable. We basically just define a mental illness as something that significantly impairs your ability to function happily in life. If society, in general, is intolerant and hostile to you due to that orientation it's not far off to think maybe that's something people might want to take a pill to fix if that was actually possible. We do recognize, now, that pathologizing being LGBT didn't really do the people with those orientations much good and attempts to reverse or suppress the impulses tended to just lead to worse mental and emotional outcomes. It turned out that simply carving out space in society to accommodate it worked a lot better than turning it into an individual problem to be "solved." And, it turns out, it wasn't that big of a deal to let people live like that after all. But I'm not sure to what extent a lot of stuff we think of as mental "illnesses" aren't like that as well. Like perhaps a lot of ADHD or anxiety disorders are actually fairly reasonable responses to sociological stressors, but we just treat them as individual problems to fix rather than wide-scale issues to address at a higher level.
- jquery 4y ago
  ADHD I have some experience with and can agree with you. I think it is mostly just a different mode of thinking that simply isn’t very compatible with sitting in a chair for hours listening to boring lectures. OCD is similar. The mental line between crippling OCD and a highly successful professional career with a reputation of being a “perfectionist” is a thin one. I’ve seen this line crossed, with tragic results… All that said, I think awareness of mental illness and self-mis-diagnosis largely isn’t the primary problem. The successful person who became a crippling OCD shut-in was convinced OCD was a myth until it was far too late. If only they took it seriously while they still had enough functioning to follow therapy instructions, they might be in a much healthier state right now.
  - navjack27 4y ago
    ADHD here at a higher level of disability. It's way more than a different mode of thinking. It's crippling and the reason I can barely function in any work setting. Medication and therapy throughout my life, since I was 2, only got me to this level. Without it I'd of probably been dead years ago from just following every impulse and getting myself in situations where I'm way over my head and way too stressed to deal with anything.
mechanical_bear 4y ago
> Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. No one in this thread was claiming that. With the possible exception of aspects of trans, but don’t conflate that with the larger LGB community. Separate issues, and not being discussed here. …
- jquery 4y ago
  Divide and conquer is the latest tactic of anti-LGBT folks. They realized it’s futile to attack the gays (for now) so they are focused on separating the T from LGBT, because trans issues are currently less understood by the broader public (who remains largely ignorant of the issue beyond culture war flashpoints). I’ve seen a lot of people making claims about gender in this thread, imagining themselves to be in opposition to trans “ideology,” while actually being perfectly aligned with it (such as that gender-non-conformity doesn’t make a person trans).
  - mechanical_bear 4y ago
    No, it’s the other way around, certain groups have been aligning themselves with other interests through which they attempt to broaden their base of support.
Banana699 4y ago
>Instead we are being encouraged to respect their gender identity, I, too, can rephrase bad things in superficially-positive language to make them seem like good things. >The science on this is pretty clear Ah, off course. THE SCIENCE^TM. The single, monolithic, Science; which by very happy coincidence happens to hold the opinions you deem acceptable. >[1] I implore you to watch this video I implore you to understand how bias and cherry picking works, for every heart-wrenching sob story about brave and stunning joe or jane finding their "true self" there are 10 heart-wrenching stories about kids being misled into mutilating their bodies irreversibly by their peers, teachers and caregivers as they chase their mythical true self, and the overwhelming power of state and mass media are on 1 side and not the other, namely that of trans activists. >If you are under the impression that being trans isn’t stigmatized enough I'm always amazed by the ability to live in parallel realities that human minds have, it's like sensory data is just an abstract high-level description that isn't enough to determine reality, and each person constructs their own reality by filling in the blank. Like, judging from my experience online, being trans is really really privileged. Is there any other groups (besides the usuals, which are also privileged) that can make public discourse salty against a comedian for 6 or 7 months straight because they made fun of the group ? Is there any case of people being outraged that comedians make fun of men ? Men literally had one of the corporations marketing products for them to shit on them in an ad in 2019, and the whole incident was forgotten in days. Yet, here you are, apparently the group that is coddled and put on a pedestal seemingly everywhere is oppressed and stigmatized.
seltzered_ 4y ago
I'm supportive of what you're trying to say and thankful for the video you shared. Just to add some context the parent author is might be trying to refer to "rapid onset gender dysphoria" ( https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... ) which, while far out of my understanding, is a rather new topic that's still being studied.

by jquery 4y ago

deepdriver 4y ago

Dobbs 4y ago
- deepdriver 4y ago
  - Dobbs 4y ago
    The daily signal is not a reputable source for anything, and most definitely not for trans related topics. Keira Bell purposefully lied and ignored all guidance and gatekeeping she was given; as she has openly admitted. She proceeded with transitioning, and then decided she was wrong. Kiera Bell won her initial court case against tavistock and got puberty blockers banned. This ruling has been overruled. The ruling was in direct contradiction Gillick competency, and made zero sense in light of all case law in the UK. Re tavistock: > In March, a review of gender identity services for young people led by the paediatrician Hilary Cass confirmed what everyone knew: that the service was under “unsustainable pressure” as demand outstripped capacity, resulting in overwhelmed staff and waiting lists of up to two years that left young people at considerable risk of distress and deteriorating mental health. > Cass recommended the creation of a network of regional hubs to provide care and support, a recommendation accepted by the NHS. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-gender-identity-clinic-is-closing-what-happens-next https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/tavistock-ge...
    - deepdriver 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

naravara 4y ago

> Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. Not medically speaking, anyway. Medically defining what an "illness" is can get into a lot of squirrely philosophical questions that aren't really scientifically or objectively answerable. We basically just define a mental illness as something that significantly impairs your ability to function happily in life. If society, in general, is intolerant and hostile to you due to that orientation it's not far off to think maybe that's something people might want to take a pill to fix if that was actually possible. We do recognize, now, that pathologizing being LGBT didn't really do the people with those orientations much good and attempts to reverse or suppress the impulses tended to just lead to worse mental and emotional outcomes. It turned out that simply carving out space in society to accommodate it worked a lot better than turning it into an individual problem to be "solved." And, it turns out, it wasn't that big of a deal to let people live like that after all. But I'm not sure to what extent a lot of stuff we think of as mental "illnesses" aren't like that as well. Like perhaps a lot of ADHD or anxiety disorders are actually fairly reasonable responses to sociological stressors, but we just treat them as individual problems to fix rather than wide-scale issues to address at a higher level.

jquery 4y ago
ADHD I have some experience with and can agree with you. I think it is mostly just a different mode of thinking that simply isn’t very compatible with sitting in a chair for hours listening to boring lectures. OCD is similar. The mental line between crippling OCD and a highly successful professional career with a reputation of being a “perfectionist” is a thin one. I’ve seen this line crossed, with tragic results… All that said, I think awareness of mental illness and self-mis-diagnosis largely isn’t the primary problem. The successful person who became a crippling OCD shut-in was convinced OCD was a myth until it was far too late. If only they took it seriously while they still had enough functioning to follow therapy instructions, they might be in a much healthier state right now.
- navjack27 4y ago
  ADHD here at a higher level of disability. It's way more than a different mode of thinking. It's crippling and the reason I can barely function in any work setting. Medication and therapy throughout my life, since I was 2, only got me to this level. Without it I'd of probably been dead years ago from just following every impulse and getting myself in situations where I'm way over my head and way too stressed to deal with anything.

mechanical_bear 4y ago

> Being lgbt isn’t a mental illness. No one in this thread was claiming that. With the possible exception of aspects of trans, but don’t conflate that with the larger LGB community. Separate issues, and not being discussed here. …

jquery 4y ago
Divide and conquer is the latest tactic of anti-LGBT folks. They realized it’s futile to attack the gays (for now) so they are focused on separating the T from LGBT, because trans issues are currently less understood by the broader public (who remains largely ignorant of the issue beyond culture war flashpoints). I’ve seen a lot of people making claims about gender in this thread, imagining themselves to be in opposition to trans “ideology,” while actually being perfectly aligned with it (such as that gender-non-conformity doesn’t make a person trans).
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  No, it’s the other way around, certain groups have been aligning themselves with other interests through which they attempt to broaden their base of support.

Banana699 4y ago

>Instead we are being encouraged to respect their gender identity, I, too, can rephrase bad things in superficially-positive language to make them seem like good things. >The science on this is pretty clear Ah, off course. THE SCIENCE^TM. The single, monolithic, Science; which by very happy coincidence happens to hold the opinions you deem acceptable. >[1] I implore you to watch this video I implore you to understand how bias and cherry picking works, for every heart-wrenching sob story about brave and stunning joe or jane finding their "true self" there are 10 heart-wrenching stories about kids being misled into mutilating their bodies irreversibly by their peers, teachers and caregivers as they chase their mythical true self, and the overwhelming power of state and mass media are on 1 side and not the other, namely that of trans activists. >If you are under the impression that being trans isn’t stigmatized enough I'm always amazed by the ability to live in parallel realities that human minds have, it's like sensory data is just an abstract high-level description that isn't enough to determine reality, and each person constructs their own reality by filling in the blank. Like, judging from my experience online, being trans is really really privileged. Is there any other groups (besides the usuals, which are also privileged) that can make public discourse salty against a comedian for 6 or 7 months straight because they made fun of the group ? Is there any case of people being outraged that comedians make fun of men ? Men literally had one of the corporations marketing products for them to shit on them in an ad in 2019, and the whole incident was forgotten in days. Yet, here you are, apparently the group that is coddled and put on a pedestal seemingly everywhere is oppressed and stigmatized.

seltzered_ 4y ago

I'm supportive of what you're trying to say and thankful for the video you shared. Just to add some context the parent author is might be trying to refer to "rapid onset gender dysphoria" ( https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... ) which, while far out of my understanding, is a rather new topic that's still being studied.