7 ms·

The bar also got a lot lower than back then. You jump over the gaps in the tiles on the road? You must have OCD. You broke up with your bf/gf.. you must have

The bar also got a lot lower than back then. You jump over the gaps in the tiles on the road? You must have OCD. You broke up with your bf/gf.. you must have depression. You're happy a bit? Bipolar disorder. You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. Less horny, asexual. And let's not forget a bunch of adhd/autism and other disorders, when a kid gets bored in school. On the other hand, we have professionals (doctors, etc.) reinforcing this, by (eg.) giving pills to kids who can't sit still for 8 hours in school without any physical excercise during that time, and parents give their kids pills,because it's easier than actually parenting that kid.

BurningFrog 4y ago
There are lots of money to be made from more diagnoses,
- addicted 4y ago
  This and the parent’s statement is almost entirely wrong. Given 2 statements: 1) Americans don’t seek/receive enough mental healthcare 2) Americans seek/receive too much mental health care no one (other than the old school types who think mental health is simply something for weak people) would pick (2) as true.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    This is a counterargument to something I didn't say.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    You can have mental health care without over prescribing pills. Some people can really benefit from being asked "how does that make you feel" in a place where they can be honest and not have to provide an answer they think is being sought.
  - kkielhofner 4y ago
    Americans don’t receive enough HEALTH care. Period. When they do it’s a yearly 10 minute appointment with a primary care physician. The physician breezes in, looks at some lab work, asks a few questions, writes a prescription or two (hey they have to “treat” something), and heads to the next patient because they do not have time. 80% of anti-depressants are prescribed by general practitioners, not psychiatrists: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5473964/#Sec1title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5473964/#Sec1ti... I know many, many people who were going through something in their life and mentioned being “a little down” to their primary care doctor. They were handed a prescription for an SSRI on the spot. So now they have depression. General practitioners do not have the time or the training to be diagnosing and treating mental health disorders. This isn’t a case of “look at a rash for 2 seconds and prescribe a topical steroid”. Psychiatrists schedule hour long appointments and many of them will want to see you a few times before they attempt to diagnose or treat anything. You can receive not enough health care and too much at the same time. It’s a matter of the right quality and appropriate type of health care.
    - mensetmanusman 4y ago
      Healthcare costs are equal to the amount of healthcare used multiplied by the cost per use. Big picture, Americans use a bit less healthcare and an other parts of the world, but they tend to spend about five times as much which is where the costs come in.
jquery 4y ago
Your generalization OCD is very, very wrong. I can sadly speak from all-too-close experience that OCD is an absolutely crippling mental illness our society still does not take seriously enough. It’s still largely used as a punchline in popular culture and in social interactions. Edit: I’m being told I misunderstood the parent comment but it appears to be claiming the bar is much lower now than in the past. Certainly skipping over sidewalk cracks isn’t OCD. The point of my comment is that when someone is diagnosed with OCD in 2022 by a professional, it’s generally for very serious reasons.
- margalabargala 4y ago
  I think you may have misread the comment you replied to. The claim being made, is that in times past, the bar for being diagnosed with something like OCD was much lower than today, causing people to consider mundane things as symptoms.
  - jquery 4y ago
    “The bar also got a lot lower than back then.” It appears GP is saying the bar for being diagnosed with a mental illness is lower today (“got a lot lower”). I am pushing back, at least where OCD is concerned.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      I'm not talking about official diagnosis by trained professionals, i'm talking about tiktok and self diagnosis. Kids today think they have OCD because they jump over the gaps in tiles, and promote that on social networks. Other kids claim they have it too, because they jump over the gaps too. And in the end... social vmedia (tiktok videos) leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (like 'real' OCD)... as the title of this post says.
      - jquery 4y ago
        from the same GP: “ we have professionals (doctors, etc.) reinforcing this”. If you’re talking about merely kids self-mis-diagnosing, then sure I’ll grant that, it’s unclear to me that GP was solely talking about that though.
qzx_pierri 4y ago
> parents give their kids pills,because it's easier than actually parenting that kid. And then you have threads like this, where people call for mass censorship because some believe it's easier to ban "bad" topics than to actively parent their kids.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
kkielhofner 4y ago
The language has shifted as well. You’re not sad, you’re depressed. You don’t worry, you have anxiety. Depression and anxiety are medical diagnoses. The other are normal emotions everyone can, should, and does experience. If you don’t ever worry or get sad about anything there’s probably something else wrong with you. In terms of diagnoses, the DSM-4 included a “bereavement exclusion” from the depression diagnostic criteria. Thinking being if someone close to you dies a normal person almost should feel the symptoms of depression for some period of time. You don’t have depression, you’re mourning. It was (controversially) removed in DSM-5: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4204469/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4204469/ The “slap a medical diagnosis on a normal feeling” described in the article seems to have entered society across the board.
- cloutchaser 4y ago
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    - nemo44x 4y ago
- Retric 4y ago
  That’s wildly wrong. The medical community adopted depression and anxiety from general use dating back to the 1500’s rather than the other way around. “The meaning "dejection, state of sadness, a sinking of the spirits" is from early 15c. (as a clinical term in psychology, from 1905);” https://www.etymonline.com/word/depression https://www.etymonline.com/word/depression “anxiety (n.) 1520s, "apprehension caused by danger, misfortune, or error, uneasiness of mind respecting some uncertainty, a restless dread of some evil," from Latin anxietatem (nominative anxietas) "anguish, anxiety, solicitude," noun of quality from anxius "uneasy, troubled in mind” https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=anxiety https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=anxiety
dkarl 4y ago
I think most doctors aren't eager to prescribe the pills, but they have to treat the parents like any other drug-seeking population. It's impossible to get medication to people who need it while denying it to people who don't need it but are determined to get it and know all the right things to say, so you accept there will be some abuse.
a_shovel 4y ago
> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. Less horny, asexual. Setting aside, for now, the fact that these are things that people realize about themselves and not things people are diagnosed with by others... Why are you bringing them up in response to a comment about mental illness?
- badcppdev 4y ago
  Because boys are allowed to play with dolls. And shouldn't think it indicates they are trans or have gender dysphoria. It's not a sign of anything. Please don't misinterpret the comment. *Edit: removed the word diagnosed as wasn't in the original comment.*
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    > Because boys are allowed to play with dolls. And shouldn't be diagnosed as being trans or having gender dysphoria. It's not a sign of anything. Yep, I meant exactly this. I mean... take the clothes away, and Action Man and (barbie's) Ken are practically the same doll.
    - KennyBlanken 4y ago
      What you actually implied is trans skepticism, which is a form of transphobia, questioning its legitimacy, implying that a lot of trans kids aren't actually trans, that they're being labeled that because they "play with dolls" - and this shouldn't be the case. No kid is diagnosed with gender dysphoria for playing with dolls.
  - a_shovel 4y ago
    - dnissley 4y ago
      They are both things that people realize about themselves and things that they are diagnosed with by others. E.g. in order to receive hormones, one must be diagnosed as having gender dysphoria by a professional.
Volundr 4y ago
> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. This literally does not happen.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  Depends on which bubble you live in.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    Simple objective reality. Nobody is diagnosing boys as trans or having gender dysphoria simply because they play with Barbies. People in a certain bubble may believe it's happening, but in the real world it takes a lot more than "plays with barbies" to get that diagnosis.
    - Banana699 4y ago
      What makes you think you have more access to objective reality than others ?
      - uoaei 4y ago
        What makes you think anyone can have access to objective reality? What makes you think a first assertion holds more weight than a second? What makes you think bubbles are not a thing? What makes you think certain phrases don't immediately betray how little someone knows about people outside of their bubble? I know enough people outside of the heteronormative experience to know that nothing about playing with Barbies pushes people toward being trans. It's reminiscent of the classic "violent games make kids violent" line. That's not the case at all -- rather violent kids are attracted more to violent games. The causality is completely incorrect and displays an obvious naivete paired with a pre-existing ideological bias.
        Banana699 4y ago
        >What makes you think anyone can have access to objective reality? Because independent people agree, when independent sources of data agree on something, that means the thing they are agreeing on is (plausibly) larger than them, and that's what we call 'reality'. >What makes you think a first assertion holds more weight than a second? I don't. >What makes you think bubbles are not a thing? That's literally the opposite of what I said. >I know enough people outside of the heteronormative experience to know that nothing about playing with Barbies pushes people toward being trans. Cool, but you're missing the point that nobody claims that playing with Barbies, by itself, makes people trans. But rather what's being claimed is that certain people push the people who play Barbies into being trans, which is an entirely different thing. >obvious naivete paired with a pre-existing ideological bias You say this as if you don't have an obviously ample supply of those yourself.
Minor49er 4y ago
Another weird trend of this is that these self-diagnoses are brought up as if they're personality traits. From what I've seen, Gen Z is much more likely to introduce themselves to others by saying things like "My name is [xyz] and I'm bipolar transfluid asexual with depression" or similar
- AndrewVos 4y ago
  Nobody has ever said this to you in your entire life
  - Minor49er 4y ago
    They actually have. Meeting my significant other's family, her niece came up to me and specifically introduced herself as her father's son
    - AndrewVos 4y ago
      That's kinda different, bud.
      - Minor49er 4y ago
        No it isn't
stretchwithme 4y ago
I heard that Obamacare changed the way insurers are paid to more of a cost plus model. So they actually have an incentive to not push back against anything. Don't know if that's true. But if it is, who is pushing back against treatments? Doctors? Insurance companies? Government? Parents?
KennyBlanken 4y ago
> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. That's...not how anyone realizes they're trans or is diagnosed as having gender dysphoria. Your comment is very moral-panicky and transphobic.

BurningFrog 4y ago

There are lots of money to be made from more diagnoses,

addicted 4y ago
This and the parent’s statement is almost entirely wrong. Given 2 statements: 1) Americans don’t seek/receive enough mental healthcare 2) Americans seek/receive too much mental health care no one (other than the old school types who think mental health is simply something for weak people) would pick (2) as true.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  This is a counterargument to something I didn't say.
- dylan604 4y ago
  You can have mental health care without over prescribing pills. Some people can really benefit from being asked "how does that make you feel" in a place where they can be honest and not have to provide an answer they think is being sought.
- kkielhofner 4y ago
  Americans don’t receive enough HEALTH care. Period. When they do it’s a yearly 10 minute appointment with a primary care physician. The physician breezes in, looks at some lab work, asks a few questions, writes a prescription or two (hey they have to “treat” something), and heads to the next patient because they do not have time. 80% of anti-depressants are prescribed by general practitioners, not psychiatrists: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5473964/#Sec1title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5473964/#Sec1ti... I know many, many people who were going through something in their life and mentioned being “a little down” to their primary care doctor. They were handed a prescription for an SSRI on the spot. So now they have depression. General practitioners do not have the time or the training to be diagnosing and treating mental health disorders. This isn’t a case of “look at a rash for 2 seconds and prescribe a topical steroid”. Psychiatrists schedule hour long appointments and many of them will want to see you a few times before they attempt to diagnose or treat anything. You can receive not enough health care and too much at the same time. It’s a matter of the right quality and appropriate type of health care.
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    Healthcare costs are equal to the amount of healthcare used multiplied by the cost per use. Big picture, Americans use a bit less healthcare and an other parts of the world, but they tend to spend about five times as much which is where the costs come in.

jquery 4y ago

Your generalization OCD is very, very wrong. I can sadly speak from all-too-close experience that OCD is an absolutely crippling mental illness our society still does not take seriously enough. It’s still largely used as a punchline in popular culture and in social interactions. Edit: I’m being told I misunderstood the parent comment but it appears to be claiming the bar is much lower now than in the past. Certainly skipping over sidewalk cracks isn’t OCD. The point of my comment is that when someone is diagnosed with OCD in 2022 by a professional, it’s generally for very serious reasons.

margalabargala 4y ago
I think you may have misread the comment you replied to. The claim being made, is that in times past, the bar for being diagnosed with something like OCD was much lower than today, causing people to consider mundane things as symptoms.
- jquery 4y ago
  “The bar also got a lot lower than back then.” It appears GP is saying the bar for being diagnosed with a mental illness is lower today (“got a lot lower”). I am pushing back, at least where OCD is concerned.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    I'm not talking about official diagnosis by trained professionals, i'm talking about tiktok and self diagnosis. Kids today think they have OCD because they jump over the gaps in tiles, and promote that on social networks. Other kids claim they have it too, because they jump over the gaps too. And in the end... social vmedia (tiktok videos) leave teens thinking they have rare mental disorders (like 'real' OCD)... as the title of this post says.
    - jquery 4y ago
      from the same GP: “ we have professionals (doctors, etc.) reinforcing this”. If you’re talking about merely kids self-mis-diagnosing, then sure I’ll grant that, it’s unclear to me that GP was solely talking about that though.

qzx_pierri 4y ago

> parents give their kids pills,because it's easier than actually parenting that kid. And then you have threads like this, where people call for mass censorship because some believe it's easier to ban "bad" topics than to actively parent their kids.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

kkielhofner 4y ago

The language has shifted as well. You’re not sad, you’re depressed. You don’t worry, you have anxiety. Depression and anxiety are medical diagnoses. The other are normal emotions everyone can, should, and does experience. If you don’t ever worry or get sad about anything there’s probably something else wrong with you. In terms of diagnoses, the DSM-4 included a “bereavement exclusion” from the depression diagnostic criteria. Thinking being if someone close to you dies a normal person almost should feel the symptoms of depression for some period of time. You don’t have depression, you’re mourning. It was (controversially) removed in DSM-5: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4204469/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4204469/ The “slap a medical diagnosis on a normal feeling” described in the article seems to have entered society across the board.

cloutchaser 4y ago
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  - nemo44x 4y ago
Retric 4y ago
That’s wildly wrong. The medical community adopted depression and anxiety from general use dating back to the 1500’s rather than the other way around. “The meaning "dejection, state of sadness, a sinking of the spirits" is from early 15c. (as a clinical term in psychology, from 1905);” https://www.etymonline.com/word/depression https://www.etymonline.com/word/depression “anxiety (n.) 1520s, "apprehension caused by danger, misfortune, or error, uneasiness of mind respecting some uncertainty, a restless dread of some evil," from Latin anxietatem (nominative anxietas) "anguish, anxiety, solicitude," noun of quality from anxius "uneasy, troubled in mind” https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=anxiety https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=anxiety

dkarl 4y ago

I think most doctors aren't eager to prescribe the pills, but they have to treat the parents like any other drug-seeking population. It's impossible to get medication to people who need it while denying it to people who don't need it but are determined to get it and know all the right things to say, so you accept there will be some abuse.

a_shovel 4y ago

> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. Less horny, asexual. Setting aside, for now, the fact that these are things that people realize about themselves and not things people are diagnosed with by others... Why are you bringing them up in response to a comment about mental illness?

badcppdev 4y ago
Because boys are allowed to play with dolls. And shouldn't think it indicates they are trans or have gender dysphoria. It's not a sign of anything. Please don't misinterpret the comment. *Edit: removed the word diagnosed as wasn't in the original comment.*
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > Because boys are allowed to play with dolls. And shouldn't be diagnosed as being trans or having gender dysphoria. It's not a sign of anything. Yep, I meant exactly this. I mean... take the clothes away, and Action Man and (barbie's) Ken are practically the same doll.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    What you actually implied is trans skepticism, which is a form of transphobia, questioning its legitimacy, implying that a lot of trans kids aren't actually trans, that they're being labeled that because they "play with dolls" - and this shouldn't be the case. No kid is diagnosed with gender dysphoria for playing with dolls.
- a_shovel 4y ago
  - dnissley 4y ago
    They are both things that people realize about themselves and things that they are diagnosed with by others. E.g. in order to receive hormones, one must be diagnosed as having gender dysphoria by a professional.

Volundr 4y ago

> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. This literally does not happen.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
Depends on which bubble you live in.
- Volundr 4y ago
  Simple objective reality. Nobody is diagnosing boys as trans or having gender dysphoria simply because they play with Barbies. People in a certain bubble may believe it's happening, but in the real world it takes a lot more than "plays with barbies" to get that diagnosis.
  - Banana699 4y ago
    What makes you think you have more access to objective reality than others ?
    - uoaei 4y ago
      What makes you think anyone can have access to objective reality? What makes you think a first assertion holds more weight than a second? What makes you think bubbles are not a thing? What makes you think certain phrases don't immediately betray how little someone knows about people outside of their bubble? I know enough people outside of the heteronormative experience to know that nothing about playing with Barbies pushes people toward being trans. It's reminiscent of the classic "violent games make kids violent" line. That's not the case at all -- rather violent kids are attracted more to violent games. The causality is completely incorrect and displays an obvious naivete paired with a pre-existing ideological bias.
      - Banana699 4y ago
        >What makes you think anyone can have access to objective reality? Because independent people agree, when independent sources of data agree on something, that means the thing they are agreeing on is (plausibly) larger than them, and that's what we call 'reality'. >What makes you think a first assertion holds more weight than a second? I don't. >What makes you think bubbles are not a thing? That's literally the opposite of what I said. >I know enough people outside of the heteronormative experience to know that nothing about playing with Barbies pushes people toward being trans. Cool, but you're missing the point that nobody claims that playing with Barbies, by itself, makes people trans. But rather what's being claimed is that certain people push the people who play Barbies into being trans, which is an entirely different thing. >obvious naivete paired with a pre-existing ideological bias You say this as if you don't have an obviously ample supply of those yourself.

Minor49er 4y ago

Another weird trend of this is that these self-diagnoses are brought up as if they're personality traits. From what I've seen, Gen Z is much more likely to introduce themselves to others by saying things like "My name is [xyz] and I'm bipolar transfluid asexual with depression" or similar

AndrewVos 4y ago
Nobody has ever said this to you in your entire life
- Minor49er 4y ago
  They actually have. Meeting my significant other's family, her niece came up to me and specifically introduced herself as her father's son
  - AndrewVos 4y ago
    That's kinda different, bud.
    - Minor49er 4y ago
      No it isn't

stretchwithme 4y ago

I heard that Obamacare changed the way insurers are paid to more of a cost plus model. So they actually have an incentive to not push back against anything. Don't know if that's true. But if it is, who is pushing back against treatments? Doctors? Insurance companies? Government? Parents?

KennyBlanken 4y ago

> You're a guy and play with a barbie... trans. That's...not how anyone realizes they're trans or is diagnosed as having gender dysphoria. Your comment is very moral-panicky and transphobic.