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If you wear glasses that invert the image, your eyes will adapt to the image after a few days. There is some information on the Wikipedia page of the guy who di

If you wear glasses that invert the image, your eyes will adapt to the image after a few days. There is some information on the Wikipedia page of the guy who discovered it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M._Stratton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M._Stratton).

foobarbecue 4y ago
Yes, I know. That's why I called it a configuration variable.
- jakogut 4y ago
  I think it has more to do with the content itself, and the elasticity and adaptability of neural networks. There is no "up" or "down" with inputs. I learned this when working with a machine vision problem. A model will adapt to the orientation or format of a given input. The orientation itself is never a variable, the network simply doesn't care and adapts to it. If you train a model to recognize input in a given orientation, any other orientation will give a high error rate. If you train the model with _every_ orientation, it will be able to classify inputs that are upside down, sideways, mirrored, etc., all relative to the original orientation.
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    Exactly. There is no "upside-down" unless you train one way and then flip it. So I wish people would stop saying "babies see upside-down at first."
    - a9h74j 4y ago
      To your point ... FWIW, young kids in cultures where they were carried in all different orientations as infants allegedly would not turn over a picture handed to them "upside down" to look at it - whereas kids who were held more upright as infants would. Presumably the former could make sense of objects in many more orientations. (Somewhat sure this was in Ashely Montegue's treatise on Touch.)
- Balgair 4y ago
  As for 'errors', yes, they are typically signs of trauma or dysfunction along the neurons that go into V1. You can have people that have blindsight or that can't tell faces apart in the upper half of their vision. You can get some pretty tragic stuff. You can also have glaucoma or other 'typical' diseases of the eye. Things like blindspots from welding or lasers. The visual system in healthy people is already a bit odd. You have the foveal blindspot, the differing distribution of rods and cones, the unseeing neurons that do light sensation for melanin production, etc. Really, the whole sensory chain is one giant bag of 'wait, it does that? huh?' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddoch_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddoch_syndrome
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    Above comment misplaced?
d_tr 4y ago
I had an eye surgery for strabismus when I was 5 or 6. They tightened some of the eye muscles. I was seeing everything rotated initially, and over a few weeks the angle gradually went from about 30 degrees back to zero. I guess it was because the muscle adjustments resulted in my eyeballs getting rotated.
- Sakos 4y ago
  Sometimes I wish I could just forget about all the bizarre things our bodies do.
HarHarVeryFunny 4y ago
Yeah, ditto for glasses that change/remove colors ... after I few days your perception adapts and you see colors normally again. It all proves how we don't directly see what's coming thru our eyes - we see the mental model that our brain maintains about the outside word, built/updated via what's coming in thru our eyes.
- affgrff2 4y ago
  Please hint me to a source on this. I wonder since some time what will happen when you use a VR headset with see-trough cameras and change the color mapping.
  - xSxY3fj5gVCmvWE 4y ago
    Try warm-tinted sunglasses for a few hours - world becomes blue for a minute or two when I take mine off. I thought everyone noticed this at some point. I would be surprised if you couldn't replicate it with a VR headset, although that doesn't sound very comfortable. You would probably also experience a fleeting feeling of hyperrealistic vision, given how low-fi the see-through camera would be compared to your eyes.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 4y ago
    I read this a long time ago .. don't remember the specific source. If I google for it I'm finding "The Innsbruck Goggle Experiments", but not sure if this was the same study I've seen before. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28521154/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28521154/ http://users.sussex.ac.uk/~ezequiel/AS/Kohler_1962.pdf http://users.sussex.ac.uk/~ezequiel/AS/Kohler_1962.pdf
Asraelite 4y ago
What I've always wondered about this is what the experience is like during the transitionary period. Surely it doesn't instantly flip from completely upside-down to completely upright. Another question I had is could you learn to instantly switch between them? If you alternated between wearing the glasses and not every few days, would the adaptation period shorten each time? Would it eventually become instant? This is usually the case for motor skills e.g. controlling something with an inverted vs. non-inverted axis.

foobarbecue 4y ago

Yes, I know. That's why I called it a configuration variable.

jakogut 4y ago
I think it has more to do with the content itself, and the elasticity and adaptability of neural networks. There is no "up" or "down" with inputs. I learned this when working with a machine vision problem. A model will adapt to the orientation or format of a given input. The orientation itself is never a variable, the network simply doesn't care and adapts to it. If you train a model to recognize input in a given orientation, any other orientation will give a high error rate. If you train the model with _every_ orientation, it will be able to classify inputs that are upside down, sideways, mirrored, etc., all relative to the original orientation.
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  Exactly. There is no "upside-down" unless you train one way and then flip it. So I wish people would stop saying "babies see upside-down at first."
  - a9h74j 4y ago
    To your point ... FWIW, young kids in cultures where they were carried in all different orientations as infants allegedly would not turn over a picture handed to them "upside down" to look at it - whereas kids who were held more upright as infants would. Presumably the former could make sense of objects in many more orientations. (Somewhat sure this was in Ashely Montegue's treatise on Touch.)
Balgair 4y ago
As for 'errors', yes, they are typically signs of trauma or dysfunction along the neurons that go into V1. You can have people that have blindsight or that can't tell faces apart in the upper half of their vision. You can get some pretty tragic stuff. You can also have glaucoma or other 'typical' diseases of the eye. Things like blindspots from welding or lasers. The visual system in healthy people is already a bit odd. You have the foveal blindspot, the differing distribution of rods and cones, the unseeing neurons that do light sensation for melanin production, etc. Really, the whole sensory chain is one giant bag of 'wait, it does that? huh?' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddoch_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riddoch_syndrome
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  Above comment misplaced?

d_tr 4y ago

I had an eye surgery for strabismus when I was 5 or 6. They tightened some of the eye muscles. I was seeing everything rotated initially, and over a few weeks the angle gradually went from about 30 degrees back to zero. I guess it was because the muscle adjustments resulted in my eyeballs getting rotated.

Sakos 4y ago
Sometimes I wish I could just forget about all the bizarre things our bodies do.

HarHarVeryFunny 4y ago

Yeah, ditto for glasses that change/remove colors ... after I few days your perception adapts and you see colors normally again. It all proves how we don't directly see what's coming thru our eyes - we see the mental model that our brain maintains about the outside word, built/updated via what's coming in thru our eyes.

affgrff2 4y ago
Please hint me to a source on this. I wonder since some time what will happen when you use a VR headset with see-trough cameras and change the color mapping.
- xSxY3fj5gVCmvWE 4y ago
  Try warm-tinted sunglasses for a few hours - world becomes blue for a minute or two when I take mine off. I thought everyone noticed this at some point. I would be surprised if you couldn't replicate it with a VR headset, although that doesn't sound very comfortable. You would probably also experience a fleeting feeling of hyperrealistic vision, given how low-fi the see-through camera would be compared to your eyes.
- HarHarVeryFunny 4y ago
  I read this a long time ago .. don't remember the specific source. If I google for it I'm finding "The Innsbruck Goggle Experiments", but not sure if this was the same study I've seen before. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28521154/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28521154/ http://users.sussex.ac.uk/~ezequiel/AS/Kohler_1962.pdf http://users.sussex.ac.uk/~ezequiel/AS/Kohler_1962.pdf

Asraelite 4y ago

What I've always wondered about this is what the experience is like during the transitionary period. Surely it doesn't instantly flip from completely upside-down to completely upright. Another question I had is could you learn to instantly switch between them? If you alternated between wearing the glasses and not every few days, would the adaptation period shorten each time? Would it eventually become instant? This is usually the case for motor skills e.g. controlling something with an inverted vs. non-inverted axis.