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Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some pa

by ztrww 4y ago

Apple provides no documentation or any other resources. Nvidia at least provides their closed source drivers and has put in some effort in open sourcing some parts of them. Obviously Nvidia is not great but it is still much, much better than Apple which just totally ignores Linux and there is no guarantee some exec might decide that they need to patch the ‘security holes’ which allow Linux to even run on m1 at some point in the future.

mattl 4y ago
I believe Apple has been making changes to actively support the Asahi community in regards to bootloaders and such.
- bombcar 4y ago
  They have, though it's not clear if it's "engineer at Apple realizes with one small change they can make it easier for Linux" or "internally Apple is fine with supporting Linux on their hardware but they're not openly doing so". I'm actually moderately surprised they are not actively helping, as often having a second OS option allows for various fun legal tricks when importing, bidding on government contracts, etc.
GlitchMr 4y ago
I think Apple would have to be stupid to block booting other operating systems on the devices they already have sold. This could easily lead to lawsuit, similar to one that Sony had when they removed OtherOS functionality from PlayStation 3.
rowanG077 4y ago
Apple actively helped Asahi Linux by changing the boot process. NVidia actively works against Linux by using things like the GPL condom. Nvidia is like that kid that is forced by a teacher to do something and then proceeds to do it in the most shitheaded way but just enough for it to work while actively working against the spirit of the request of the teacher. Apple in contrast has helped Asahi Linux for literally no reason. It wasn't requiest, it wasn't even required. It just made life easier for Asahi Linux.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Apple helped Asahi allegedly. There is no explicit support of Asahi from Apple, just to be 100% clear. The change you're talking about is likely to have been for Asahi, but no statement from Apple so far about it.
  - rowanG077 4y ago
    Allegedly? Apple added a feature useless for themselves but something Asahi Linux benefited from greatly. Can't really make it more clear then this. Or do you expect Tim Cook to announce Asahi Linux in the next keynote?
    - capableweb 4y ago
      Maybe the "allegedly" is misplaced, I hope my overall point is clear anyway. Apple haven't "officially" helped Asahi, the change could have be made by a single contributor to the kernel for example, or more of a "why not" change without regarding Asahi specifically. We (unless you work at Apple) don't really know at this point.
      - sbuk 4y ago
        Ask marcan_42 for how much support Apple have provided. When it has come up, they have been pretty open about it...
        capableweb 4y ago
        Marcan has been pretty clear in saying the same thing as I've said here. Apple doesn't have much use of such a feature themselves (apparently), but no communication was made of why the change happened. However small chance is that the change was made for other purposes, we simply don't know why it was made.
        sbuk 4y ago
        https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1554395184473190400 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1554395184473190400 > "Okay, it's been over a year, and it's time to end the nonsense speculation." > "I have heard from several Apple employees that:" > "1. The boot method we use is for 3rd-party OSes, and Apple only use it to test that it works, because" > "2. It is policy that it works." > "Hacker News peanut gallery, you can drop the BS now. It's not an "assumption" that this stuff exists for 3rd-party OSes. It couldn't "be something internal Apple uses that could go away any minute". That is not how it works, it never was, and now I'm telling you it's official." > "And this isn't even news because @XenoKovah (who invented and designed this entire Boot Policy 3rd party OS mechanism) already tweeted about this whole thing a long time ago, but apparently it needs to be restated." So no, we do know why this was made and no, Marcan hasn't made the claim that you have.

by ztrww 4y ago

mattl 4y ago

I believe Apple has been making changes to actively support the Asahi community in regards to bootloaders and such.

bombcar 4y ago
They have, though it's not clear if it's "engineer at Apple realizes with one small change they can make it easier for Linux" or "internally Apple is fine with supporting Linux on their hardware but they're not openly doing so". I'm actually moderately surprised they are not actively helping, as often having a second OS option allows for various fun legal tricks when importing, bidding on government contracts, etc.

GlitchMr 4y ago

I think Apple would have to be stupid to block booting other operating systems on the devices they already have sold. This could easily lead to lawsuit, similar to one that Sony had when they removed OtherOS functionality from PlayStation 3.

rowanG077 4y ago

Apple actively helped Asahi Linux by changing the boot process. NVidia actively works against Linux by using things like the GPL condom. Nvidia is like that kid that is forced by a teacher to do something and then proceeds to do it in the most shitheaded way but just enough for it to work while actively working against the spirit of the request of the teacher. Apple in contrast has helped Asahi Linux for literally no reason. It wasn't requiest, it wasn't even required. It just made life easier for Asahi Linux.

capableweb 4y ago
Apple helped Asahi allegedly. There is no explicit support of Asahi from Apple, just to be 100% clear. The change you're talking about is likely to have been for Asahi, but no statement from Apple so far about it.
- rowanG077 4y ago
  Allegedly? Apple added a feature useless for themselves but something Asahi Linux benefited from greatly. Can't really make it more clear then this. Or do you expect Tim Cook to announce Asahi Linux in the next keynote?
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Maybe the "allegedly" is misplaced, I hope my overall point is clear anyway. Apple haven't "officially" helped Asahi, the change could have be made by a single contributor to the kernel for example, or more of a "why not" change without regarding Asahi specifically. We (unless you work at Apple) don't really know at this point.
    - sbuk 4y ago
      Ask marcan_42 for how much support Apple have provided. When it has come up, they have been pretty open about it...
      - capableweb 4y ago
        Marcan has been pretty clear in saying the same thing as I've said here. Apple doesn't have much use of such a feature themselves (apparently), but no communication was made of why the change happened. However small chance is that the change was made for other purposes, we simply don't know why it was made.
        sbuk 4y ago
        https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1554395184473190400 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1554395184473190400 > "Okay, it's been over a year, and it's time to end the nonsense speculation." > "I have heard from several Apple employees that:" > "1. The boot method we use is for 3rd-party OSes, and Apple only use it to test that it works, because" > "2. It is policy that it works." > "Hacker News peanut gallery, you can drop the BS now. It's not an "assumption" that this stuff exists for 3rd-party OSes. It couldn't "be something internal Apple uses that could go away any minute". That is not how it works, it never was, and now I'm telling you it's official." > "And this isn't even news because @XenoKovah (who invented and designed this entire Boot Policy 3rd party OS mechanism) already tweeted about this whole thing a long time ago, but apparently it needs to be restated." So no, we do know why this was made and no, Marcan hasn't made the claim that you have.