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I’m still confused why the legislature didn’t deal with this issue. I have a theory that in the absence of the Roe ruling, publicity of outcomes would have forc

I’m still confused why the legislature didn’t deal with this issue. I have a theory that in the absence of the Roe ruling, publicity of outcomes would have forced the politicians to create somewhat appropriate rules. E.g. in Australia we recently reached the situation that both abortion and euthanasia are permitted by all states. I never considered it something the courts should weigh in on - progressive governments allowed members bills and conscience votes. It’s possible there are US states where the ruling politicians don’t get rotated (voted) out like they are guaranteed to here (eventually) and the legislature is always conservative, but there’s always the possibility of federal laws.

PeterisP 4y ago
The legislature has dealt with this issue by passing strong, specific laws regarding abortion in many of the states - with quite opposite conditions depending on the state. And it's not because of lack of "rotating" politicians, quite a few of them got elected on because they promised to prohibit abortions, getting votes from the state majority of conservative voters who considered a strict prohibition entirely appropriate. The federal legislature, on the other hand has it a bit trickier, because despite the much grown influence of federal government using the commerce clause, it does technically seem that this kind of policy is something that according to USA constitutional principles gets to be decided on a state level.
nobody9999 4y ago
>I’m still confused why the legislature didn’t deal with this issue. I have a theory that in the absence of the Roe ruling, publicity of outcomes would have forced the politicians to create somewhat appropriate rules. As an American of a certain age, I'd say that it's because culture changes slowly. While it was obvious to me decades ago that sentient beings should have bodily autonomy and that it was cruel to deny those same beings the right to love who and how they need to do so, that wasn't the case across most of the US. In fact, the opposition to stuff like bodily autonomy, basic marriage rights, and a raft of other issues weren't (as it is now) concentrated in a single political party as it is today. And that's why Roe v. Wade was never codified by statute, at least not at the Federal level (note that each state has its own laws regarding bodily autonomy). Which is a huge mistake IMHO. Bodily autonomy isn't something that should be legislated by any government. Full stop. Before the age of the 24/7 news cycle (amped up by orders of magnitude with the advent of "social" media), political discourse was generally more local and more amenable to compromise at the national level. There are numerous reasons for the political and geographical "sorting" that's gone on for the last 40 years or so, but the upshot has been that folks have become more reactionary, more intolerant and more likely to demonize those with whom they disagree. In fact, in many cases political operatives in the US don't even pretend to address issues. Rather they just demonize the political "other," refuse to cooperate to create positive change and leave it at that. And the bodily autonomy issue is part and parcel of that trend. There have always been busybodies who want to control what others do, say or think. And a small group of religious extremists hijacked one of the major parties (because that party had continued to lose power and influence because of their anti-liberty, anti-working class stances) that recently culminated in the recent SCOTUS decision[4]. It's really sad. Not because things were so much better 40 years ago. In fact, in many respects, things are better for minority and under-represented groups. Back in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s[5], the death of a black man at the hands of police[0] (or a civilian[1] for that matter) was almost always just shrugged off. Today, folks go to jail[2][3] for that sort of thing. Is the US the inclusive, free society that we claim to be? No. Are we better than we used to be? Yes. Does more need to be done? Definitely. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Amadou_Diallo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Amadou_Diallo [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shoo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ahmaud_Arbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ahmaud_Arbery [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women's_Health_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women's_Healt... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americans_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States#Before_2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americ...

PeterisP 4y ago

The legislature has dealt with this issue by passing strong, specific laws regarding abortion in many of the states - with quite opposite conditions depending on the state. And it's not because of lack of "rotating" politicians, quite a few of them got elected on because they promised to prohibit abortions, getting votes from the state majority of conservative voters who considered a strict prohibition entirely appropriate. The federal legislature, on the other hand has it a bit trickier, because despite the much grown influence of federal government using the commerce clause, it does technically seem that this kind of policy is something that according to USA constitutional principles gets to be decided on a state level.

nobody9999 4y ago

>I’m still confused why the legislature didn’t deal with this issue. I have a theory that in the absence of the Roe ruling, publicity of outcomes would have forced the politicians to create somewhat appropriate rules. As an American of a certain age, I'd say that it's because culture changes slowly. While it was obvious to me decades ago that sentient beings should have bodily autonomy and that it was cruel to deny those same beings the right to love who and how they need to do so, that wasn't the case across most of the US. In fact, the opposition to stuff like bodily autonomy, basic marriage rights, and a raft of other issues weren't (as it is now) concentrated in a single political party as it is today. And that's why Roe v. Wade was never codified by statute, at least not at the Federal level (note that each state has its own laws regarding bodily autonomy). Which is a huge mistake IMHO. Bodily autonomy isn't something that should be legislated by any government. Full stop. Before the age of the 24/7 news cycle (amped up by orders of magnitude with the advent of "social" media), political discourse was generally more local and more amenable to compromise at the national level. There are numerous reasons for the political and geographical "sorting" that's gone on for the last 40 years or so, but the upshot has been that folks have become more reactionary, more intolerant and more likely to demonize those with whom they disagree. In fact, in many cases political operatives in the US don't even pretend to address issues. Rather they just demonize the political "other," refuse to cooperate to create positive change and leave it at that. And the bodily autonomy issue is part and parcel of that trend. There have always been busybodies who want to control what others do, say or think. And a small group of religious extremists hijacked one of the major parties (because that party had continued to lose power and influence because of their anti-liberty, anti-working class stances) that recently culminated in the recent SCOTUS decision[4]. It's really sad. Not because things were so much better 40 years ago. In fact, in many respects, things are better for minority and under-represented groups. Back in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s[5], the death of a black man at the hands of police[0] (or a civilian[1] for that matter) was almost always just shrugged off. Today, folks go to jail[2][3] for that sort of thing. Is the US the inclusive, free society that we claim to be? No. Are we better than we used to be? Yes. Does more need to be done? Definitely. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Amadou_Diallo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Amadou_Diallo [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shoo... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ahmaud_Arbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ahmaud_Arbery [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women's_Health_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobbs_v._Jackson_Women's_Healt... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americans_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States#Before_2000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unarmed_African_Americ...