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So much for the bigotry. Europeans are almost as fat as Americans and White Europeans are basically the same as White Europeans in that regard. I've lived all

So much for the bigotry. Europeans are almost as fat as Americans and White Europeans are basically the same as White Europeans in that regard. I've lived all over both continents and yes, Europeans live in very small flats. Energy is prohibitively expensive. I enjoy European culture a bit more (both have advantages), but in North America you have the choice generally to live big or small. Not everyone needs a big home (or ranch) but wide open spaces are really nice. We probably all have an overpopulation problem, but it'd be really, really nice to solve our energy problems, it comes along with fixing climate change and dumping Russians and Saudis from having so much power as we currently are sending them all of our surplus. And yes, we already 'expansive thinking' in North America, it's why generally we have a bit more material abundance and are a bit wealthier at least by economic measures.

dagw 4y ago
but in North America you have the choice generally to live big or small How is that different in Europe? For the price of a one room flat in the centre of the nice part of town you can equally get a nice big house with a garden way out of town if that is what you prefer. Sure US houses tend to be bigger on average, but it's not like you can't buy a big house on the cheap if that is what you want. You just have to be willing to live an hour+ drive away from anything in a place with no jobs. The only real difference is that, on average, Europeans tend to prioritise shorter commutes and living closer to town over large homes.
- geraldwhen 4y ago
  You can have large homes close to work (<20 mins) in much of the USA. I can count on my hand the number of people I know with a commute longer than 30 mins.
- arethuza 4y ago
  Indeed - as someone who moved from a (large) flat in central Edinburgh - if you go one hour out of Edinburgh (which is an easy commute if you go somewhere near a train line) then you get an awful lot more for your money. A nice single bedroom flat in the centre of Edinburgh is about £400K - that'll get you a pretty nice house with a garden somewhere like Fife.
- concordDance 4y ago
  Average US housing has 3x the floor space and land space as a British house. The Brits are very poor by US standards.
  - arethuza 4y ago
    US homes often look like rather insubstantial temporary structures to me.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    Average housing is mediated by where people want to live and preferences around the value of space. I could move elsewhere in the UK and have 5x the space for the same price, or I could buy a castle in France. But while that castle might be tempting for retirement, I value living close to the centre of London more than I value the extra space.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jollybean 4y ago
      Yes, supply and demand. And there's considerably more 'supply' of land in the US. Homes are considerably less expensive in comparable relative terms. So is energy. So is food. So those are some very primary inputs into the cost of living, which means we live 'expansively' in North America. In Europe people are super concerned about 'cutting back' that mentality hasn't quite hit in North America. I suggest Americans will be more interested in aggressively increasing energy production, rather than learning how to live with less, except in some circumstances where I'm sure European advances in 'water saving dishwashers' etc. will be welcome.
      - vidarh 4y ago
        My point is that supply and demand is heavily affected by priorities, and so you need to account for people's priorities if you want to make assumptions about what the difference in size means. There is plenty of affordable land in Europe, but instead we're seeing even people who do not need to move to more expensive cities for work still do so because we willingly choose smaller houses. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of people who would like more space, but I've personally worked with people who "wanted" more space, but only if they didn't have to move even one fare zone on public transport further out, because they liked to be dead centre of a major metropolis. My example of a French castle was not random - I'm considering retiring to France eventually, and for the cost of my house in London, I can literally buy a castle 10x the size of my house, on huge grounds. Yet today I would not swap my house for a castle even though I work 100% remote and could do so if it suited my lifestyle, because my location currently matters more to me than more space.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  > The only real difference is that, on average, Europeans tend to prioritise shorter commutes and living closer to town over large homes. And afaict Americans /are prohibited from/ prioritising that due to zoning - it is nearly impossible to get an apartment close to shops, work, and functioning public transit.
- jollybean 4y ago
  Homes (and flats) in North America are substantially bigger than those in the US and you generally don't have to go 'way out'. If you go 'substantially out of town' in North America you can live in quite a seriously large home, a size that generally doesn't have comparison in Europe. Finally, in North America, in most places just 2 hours from the city you can have 'vast' acreage. Very big plots of land. So the 'size' comparison from flats, to suburban homes, to extra urban homes, to mini-ranches doesn't really compare. Of course, that comes with significantly more energy usage.
benj111 4y ago
The US has an obesity rate of 36.20% the highest rate of obesity in Europe is the UK with 27.8% the rest of Europe is in the low 20s. So 'almost as fat' is actually closer to 'a third less fat' and at best '25% less fat' https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/obesity-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/obesity-r...

dagw 4y ago

but in North America you have the choice generally to live big or small How is that different in Europe? For the price of a one room flat in the centre of the nice part of town you can equally get a nice big house with a garden way out of town if that is what you prefer. Sure US houses tend to be bigger on average, but it's not like you can't buy a big house on the cheap if that is what you want. You just have to be willing to live an hour+ drive away from anything in a place with no jobs. The only real difference is that, on average, Europeans tend to prioritise shorter commutes and living closer to town over large homes.

geraldwhen 4y ago
You can have large homes close to work (<20 mins) in much of the USA. I can count on my hand the number of people I know with a commute longer than 30 mins.
arethuza 4y ago
Indeed - as someone who moved from a (large) flat in central Edinburgh - if you go one hour out of Edinburgh (which is an easy commute if you go somewhere near a train line) then you get an awful lot more for your money. A nice single bedroom flat in the centre of Edinburgh is about £400K - that'll get you a pretty nice house with a garden somewhere like Fife.
concordDance 4y ago
Average US housing has 3x the floor space and land space as a British house. The Brits are very poor by US standards.
- arethuza 4y ago
  US homes often look like rather insubstantial temporary structures to me.
- vidarh 4y ago
  Average housing is mediated by where people want to live and preferences around the value of space. I could move elsewhere in the UK and have 5x the space for the same price, or I could buy a castle in France. But while that castle might be tempting for retirement, I value living close to the centre of London more than I value the extra space.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jollybean 4y ago
    Yes, supply and demand. And there's considerably more 'supply' of land in the US. Homes are considerably less expensive in comparable relative terms. So is energy. So is food. So those are some very primary inputs into the cost of living, which means we live 'expansively' in North America. In Europe people are super concerned about 'cutting back' that mentality hasn't quite hit in North America. I suggest Americans will be more interested in aggressively increasing energy production, rather than learning how to live with less, except in some circumstances where I'm sure European advances in 'water saving dishwashers' etc. will be welcome.
    - vidarh 4y ago
      My point is that supply and demand is heavily affected by priorities, and so you need to account for people's priorities if you want to make assumptions about what the difference in size means. There is plenty of affordable land in Europe, but instead we're seeing even people who do not need to move to more expensive cities for work still do so because we willingly choose smaller houses. That is not to say that there aren't plenty of people who would like more space, but I've personally worked with people who "wanted" more space, but only if they didn't have to move even one fare zone on public transport further out, because they liked to be dead centre of a major metropolis. My example of a French castle was not random - I'm considering retiring to France eventually, and for the cost of my house in London, I can literally buy a castle 10x the size of my house, on huge grounds. Yet today I would not swap my house for a castle even though I work 100% remote and could do so if it suited my lifestyle, because my location currently matters more to me than more space.
solar-ice 4y ago
> The only real difference is that, on average, Europeans tend to prioritise shorter commutes and living closer to town over large homes. And afaict Americans /are prohibited from/ prioritising that due to zoning - it is nearly impossible to get an apartment close to shops, work, and functioning public transit.
jollybean 4y ago
Homes (and flats) in North America are substantially bigger than those in the US and you generally don't have to go 'way out'. If you go 'substantially out of town' in North America you can live in quite a seriously large home, a size that generally doesn't have comparison in Europe. Finally, in North America, in most places just 2 hours from the city you can have 'vast' acreage. Very big plots of land. So the 'size' comparison from flats, to suburban homes, to extra urban homes, to mini-ranches doesn't really compare. Of course, that comes with significantly more energy usage.

benj111 4y ago

The US has an obesity rate of 36.20% the highest rate of obesity in Europe is the UK with 27.8% the rest of Europe is in the low 20s. So 'almost as fat' is actually closer to 'a third less fat' and at best '25% less fat' https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/obesity-rates-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/obesity-r...