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It can and is used as an argument. Unfortunately, the people who believe in this argument generally do not have enough power to end capital punishment.

ogogmad 4y ago
It depends on how rigorous the standard of proof is. The US spends a big amount of money proving that someone sentenced to execution is guilty of their crime.
- thorncorona 4y ago
  > The US spends obscene amounts of money proving that someone sentenced to execution is guilty of their crime. I feel like you’re implying that this is a bad thing to rigorously prove whether a crime has occurred?
  - ogogmad 4y ago
    I'm saying that many would want to execute the commandant of Auschwitz, especially if the evidence for their guilt is overwhelming. I think a standard of proof high enough can sometimes be met, and the crime sufficiently deserving. On a purely emotional level, I would want to punish a war criminal more severely than a common murderer.
    - pavlov 4y ago
      On a more rational level, executing the commander of Auschwitz does nothing but provide short-term satisfaction, but treating even the monster to a humane standard affirms the values of democracy and sets an example for future generations. Think of how the American prison scandals of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib affected the global perception of American justice. It was just a massive loss of international goodwill and credibility accumulated over a century. All the torture and kidnappings delivered very little practical return in the end.
    - kiba 4y ago
      I put human welfare above every priority, so I don't see why 'crime sufficiently deserving' would be something I should care about. Ultimately, I want less people to be murdered, incarcerated, or otherwise undergoing human suffering. We should inflict the least amount of suffering for the purpose of preventing moral harms. Our goal should be to prevent someone like the commandant of Auschwitz from existing, or failing that, address the reasons why it came about.
  - dento 4y ago
    Death penalty with proper trial is more expensive than life-without-parole sentence, at least in the US currently [1]. I'm not sure if this means that non-death-penalty crimes are not inspected properly. In such system the only reason for the capital punishment is revenge. 1: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs
- cjbprime 4y ago
  Have you read https://innocenceproject.org/the-innocent-and-the-death-penalty/ https://innocenceproject.org/the-innocent-and-the-death-pena... ? It is hard to square with what you wrote.
- Someone 4y ago
  The US spends a lot on health care, too, but it’s the results that count, not the amount of money spent. And the results aren’t all good, and that’s saying it kindly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_i...
Intermernet 4y ago
Capital punishment isn't a thing in many parts of the world. Have a look at this map [1]. The people opposed to capital punishment have managed to win the argument in a majority of the countries in the world. [1]: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-death-penalty https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

ogogmad 4y ago

It depends on how rigorous the standard of proof is. The US spends a big amount of money proving that someone sentenced to execution is guilty of their crime.

thorncorona 4y ago
> The US spends obscene amounts of money proving that someone sentenced to execution is guilty of their crime. I feel like you’re implying that this is a bad thing to rigorously prove whether a crime has occurred?
- ogogmad 4y ago
  I'm saying that many would want to execute the commandant of Auschwitz, especially if the evidence for their guilt is overwhelming. I think a standard of proof high enough can sometimes be met, and the crime sufficiently deserving. On a purely emotional level, I would want to punish a war criminal more severely than a common murderer.
  - pavlov 4y ago
    On a more rational level, executing the commander of Auschwitz does nothing but provide short-term satisfaction, but treating even the monster to a humane standard affirms the values of democracy and sets an example for future generations. Think of how the American prison scandals of Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib affected the global perception of American justice. It was just a massive loss of international goodwill and credibility accumulated over a century. All the torture and kidnappings delivered very little practical return in the end.
  - kiba 4y ago
    I put human welfare above every priority, so I don't see why 'crime sufficiently deserving' would be something I should care about. Ultimately, I want less people to be murdered, incarcerated, or otherwise undergoing human suffering. We should inflict the least amount of suffering for the purpose of preventing moral harms. Our goal should be to prevent someone like the commandant of Auschwitz from existing, or failing that, address the reasons why it came about.
- dento 4y ago
  Death penalty with proper trial is more expensive than life-without-parole sentence, at least in the US currently [1]. I'm not sure if this means that non-death-penalty crimes are not inspected properly. In such system the only reason for the capital punishment is revenge. 1: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs
cjbprime 4y ago
Have you read https://innocenceproject.org/the-innocent-and-the-death-penalty/ https://innocenceproject.org/the-innocent-and-the-death-pena... ? It is hard to square with what you wrote.
Someone 4y ago
The US spends a lot on health care, too, but it’s the results that count, not the amount of money spent. And the results aren’t all good, and that’s saying it kindly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wrongful_convictions_i...

Intermernet 4y ago

Capital punishment isn't a thing in many parts of the world. Have a look at this map [1]. The people opposed to capital punishment have managed to win the argument in a majority of the countries in the world. [1]: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-death-penalty https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...