7 ms·

New Zealand had some of the toughest lockdowns in the entire world. It only just lifted the last of the travel restrictions (https://covid19.govt.nz/internation

New Zealand had some of the toughest lockdowns in the entire world. It only just lifted the last of the travel restrictions (https://covid19.govt.nz/international-travel/when-new-zealand-borders-open/ https://covid19.govt.nz/international-travel/when-new-zealan...). It mandated vaccinations in all kinds of ways, including firing hundreds of nurses at the height of a pandemic for what appears to be the worst kind of virtue signalling I have ever seen. The latest democratic crisis involved handing over effective control of water assets to unelected "regional representative groups" based on race. (https://www.democracyaction.org.nz/planned_three_waters_entities_governance_undemocratic https://www.democracyaction.org.nz/planned_three_waters_enti...)

julianz 4y ago
Horseshit. A few nurses were stood down because they wouldn't get a vaccination in a pandemic. Good. Your take on the Three Waters reforms is just completely wronghewded, there is so much misinformation about those changes it's ridiculous. Water systems need fixing up in NZ and it makes no sense to let small local councils do it when larger bodies can borrow at better rates to get the infrastructure work done.
- logicchains 4y ago
  > Horseshit. A few nurses were stood down because they wouldn't get a vaccination in a pandemic. Good. A pandemic in which they were at the frontlines, observing both the effects of covid on patients and the effects of the vaccines, yet they were more afraid of the vaccines than covid. That should tell you something about how safe the vaccines are.
  - jon_adler 4y ago
    New Zealand nurses had virtually zero first hand experience of the effects of the virus (on the frontlines) because the government imposed isolation was so effective at keeping Covid out of the country. Also, there is plenty of evidence that proves vaccination is considerably less dangerous than contracting the virus (especially for the over 60 age group), although in certain younger age groups it’s a bit inconclusive. Nurses can be as irrational as any other professionals.
- Gareth321 4y ago
  >"wrongheaded" >"misinformation" Isn't it amazing how people who don't like the truth accuse others of "wrongthink." Go ahead and read the legislation for yourself (https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme). 50% of the Regional Representative Groups must be made up of Maori.
EdwardDiego 4y ago
1) How do lockdowns to minimise deaths violate natural justice? 2) Refusing a reasonable request from an employer is grounds for termination in NZ employment law. Asking people working with vulnerable people to be vaccinated against the disease causing that pandemic is a reasonable request. The only virtue signalling was from the nurses who martyred themselves on the altar of misinformation. 3) No, the Three Waters reforms aren't just handing control over critical infrastructure to Māori. In the proposed legislation, 50% of members of the new controlling entities will be representatives of relevant territorial authorities, 50% representatives of mana whenua, that is, relevant Māori tribes. [0] I can explain why the reforms are necessary if you like, but it's not directly relevant to the current discussion. The make-up of the new entities is in line with the constitutional principle of partnership between the Crown and Māori, derived from legal interpretations of, and attempts to reconcile, the differing texts of the Māori version of the Treaty of Waitangi and the English version. [1] [2] Remember that NZ is a common law country, so, like the UK, we have no explicit constitution, and previous legal decisions set the basis for further decisions, so our constitutionality law is shaped by legal precedent. The link you shared is misinformed at best, deliberate racebaiting misinformation at worst, there's a bit of that going around, and it's often expressed by people who grew up when racism against Māori was commonplace. The man who operates the website you linked runs a hydraulics firm, he's not a constitutional lawyer, just so you know. I'm happy to explain more about our country if you're looking to learn more. [0]: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0136/latest/LMS537724.html https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0136/la... [1]: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/differences-between-the-texts https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/di... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_the_Treaty_of_Waitangi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_the_Treaty_of_Wa...
- logicchains 4y ago
  > 1) How do lockdowns to minimise deaths violate natural justice? To minimise _one form_ of death. If you locked everybody in their houses forever, nobody would die of car accidents, but more people would die of other things. All the studies now show that lockdowns achieved no reduction in overall mortality, they just delayed things a bit, and led to a bunch of other issues like increase in alcoholism/depression and significantly impaired childhood development.

julianz 4y ago

Horseshit. A few nurses were stood down because they wouldn't get a vaccination in a pandemic. Good. Your take on the Three Waters reforms is just completely wronghewded, there is so much misinformation about those changes it's ridiculous. Water systems need fixing up in NZ and it makes no sense to let small local councils do it when larger bodies can borrow at better rates to get the infrastructure work done.

logicchains 4y ago
> Horseshit. A few nurses were stood down because they wouldn't get a vaccination in a pandemic. Good. A pandemic in which they were at the frontlines, observing both the effects of covid on patients and the effects of the vaccines, yet they were more afraid of the vaccines than covid. That should tell you something about how safe the vaccines are.
- jon_adler 4y ago
  New Zealand nurses had virtually zero first hand experience of the effects of the virus (on the frontlines) because the government imposed isolation was so effective at keeping Covid out of the country. Also, there is plenty of evidence that proves vaccination is considerably less dangerous than contracting the virus (especially for the over 60 age group), although in certain younger age groups it’s a bit inconclusive. Nurses can be as irrational as any other professionals.
Gareth321 4y ago
>"wrongheaded" >"misinformation" Isn't it amazing how people who don't like the truth accuse others of "wrongthink." Go ahead and read the legislation for yourself (https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme). 50% of the Regional Representative Groups must be made up of Maori.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

1) How do lockdowns to minimise deaths violate natural justice? 2) Refusing a reasonable request from an employer is grounds for termination in NZ employment law. Asking people working with vulnerable people to be vaccinated against the disease causing that pandemic is a reasonable request. The only virtue signalling was from the nurses who martyred themselves on the altar of misinformation. 3) No, the Three Waters reforms aren't just handing control over critical infrastructure to Māori. In the proposed legislation, 50% of members of the new controlling entities will be representatives of relevant territorial authorities, 50% representatives of mana whenua, that is, relevant Māori tribes. [0] I can explain why the reforms are necessary if you like, but it's not directly relevant to the current discussion. The make-up of the new entities is in line with the constitutional principle of partnership between the Crown and Māori, derived from legal interpretations of, and attempts to reconcile, the differing texts of the Māori version of the Treaty of Waitangi and the English version. [1] [2] Remember that NZ is a common law country, so, like the UK, we have no explicit constitution, and previous legal decisions set the basis for further decisions, so our constitutionality law is shaped by legal precedent. The link you shared is misinformed at best, deliberate racebaiting misinformation at worst, there's a bit of that going around, and it's often expressed by people who grew up when racism against Māori was commonplace. The man who operates the website you linked runs a hydraulics firm, he's not a constitutional lawyer, just so you know. I'm happy to explain more about our country if you're looking to learn more. [0]: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0136/latest/LMS537724.html https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0136/la... [1]: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/differences-between-the-texts https://nzhistory.govt.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/di... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_the_Treaty_of_Waitangi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_the_Treaty_of_Wa...

logicchains 4y ago
> 1) How do lockdowns to minimise deaths violate natural justice? To minimise _one form_ of death. If you locked everybody in their houses forever, nobody would die of car accidents, but more people would die of other things. All the studies now show that lockdowns achieved no reduction in overall mortality, they just delayed things a bit, and led to a bunch of other issues like increase in alcoholism/depression and significantly impaired childhood development.