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As a few ex-Mormons have pointed out, Sparks was not the first Mormon to publish a text ostensibly based on an original source that the rest of the world did no

As a few ex-Mormons have pointed out, Sparks was not the first Mormon to publish a text ostensibly based on an original source that the rest of the world did not get to see. Hah!

CoastalCoder 4y ago
It's pithy, but calling BS on each other's world views is probably the road to flagged comments.
- ck2 4y ago
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > even worse suppressing women and minorities Christianity and faith that everyone was created equal in the eyes of God was essential to inventing the concept of racial equality at a time when science couldn’t prove that assertion. Put yourself in 1850–looking around at societies in the world as they existed then—and make a scientific case for racial equality powerful enough to convince hundreds of thousands of free people to sacrifice their lives for it. Even today there’s nowhere more zealously committed to the notion of racial equality than Christian countries.
    - ck2 4y ago
      - abdulhaq 4y ago
        Across the history of man the greatest mass killings of people were instigated by atheists e.g Stalin who murdered millions simply because they were Christian. Most wars are tribal fights where the religion correlates to the tribe and it has little to no effect on causing the war. You even said yourself that it does the opposite, it placates it.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        > Are you kidding me? You realize slavery, torture and beatings was justified based on the bible alone This isn’t a historically correct statement. Slavery has existed in myriad societies that don’t read the Bible. In Civil War era America, the Confederates sought to place themselves on the side of “science” and characterized the union as religious “zealots.” https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornerstone-speech https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornersto... What’s remarkable about Christian societies is that they ended slavery the way they did. To my knowledge there’s no other example of a society that tore itself apart and where people sacrificed by hundreds of thousands of their own for the freedom of a different group of people.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    What an incredibly shallow and immature take on religion. Not everyone who chooses to be involved with a religion has an IQ lower than you or believes in magic. You’re missing something. Something important that religion provides for Billions of people.
- fumeux_fume 4y ago
themodelplumber 4y ago
That's not true. The original people who saw it (with their spiritual senses) also claimed that others could know it was real (with their spiritual senses). If the world didn't get to see it, or can't see the literal face of, or a pointy appendage of God, or can't see the difference between this religion and every other religion that makes claims based on one's subjective spiritual senses, then that's a problem for them (and their obvious spiritual deficiency). Why does everyone leave out the important details??
- arise 4y ago
  With all due respect, this is an extremely theological version of the Emperor's New Clothes: conveniently non-falsifiable and if anyone points it out, they're a bad person.
- cryptophreak 4y ago
  Probably because one man's important details is another's gibberish.
- shijie 4y ago
  > Why does everyone leave out the important details?? Most people are more interested in a narrative than they are the truth.
bolt7469 4y ago
TFA is blatantly wrong: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/th... https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/ei...
- Forbo 4y ago
  They only saw them with their "spiritual eyes". https://read.cesletter.org/witnesses/#second-sight https://read.cesletter.org/witnesses/#second-sight Former member, it hurts seeing everything that I " knew" to be true turn out to be complete falsehoods. I encourage you to read the sourced and cited first-party quotations. I'm sorry, and I hope nothing but the best for you and yours.
dang 4y ago
Let's not go into a religious flamewar please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

As a few ex-Mormons have pointed out, Sparks was not the first Mormon to publish a text ostensibly based on an original source that the rest of the world did not get to see. Hah!

CoastalCoder 4y ago

It's pithy, but calling BS on each other's world views is probably the road to flagged comments.

ck2 4y ago
- rayiner 4y ago
  > even worse suppressing women and minorities Christianity and faith that everyone was created equal in the eyes of God was essential to inventing the concept of racial equality at a time when science couldn’t prove that assertion. Put yourself in 1850–looking around at societies in the world as they existed then—and make a scientific case for racial equality powerful enough to convince hundreds of thousands of free people to sacrifice their lives for it. Even today there’s nowhere more zealously committed to the notion of racial equality than Christian countries.
  - ck2 4y ago
    - abdulhaq 4y ago
      Across the history of man the greatest mass killings of people were instigated by atheists e.g Stalin who murdered millions simply because they were Christian. Most wars are tribal fights where the religion correlates to the tribe and it has little to no effect on causing the war. You even said yourself that it does the opposite, it placates it.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > Are you kidding me? You realize slavery, torture and beatings was justified based on the bible alone This isn’t a historically correct statement. Slavery has existed in myriad societies that don’t read the Bible. In Civil War era America, the Confederates sought to place themselves on the side of “science” and characterized the union as religious “zealots.” https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornerstone-speech https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/cornersto... What’s remarkable about Christian societies is that they ended slavery the way they did. To my knowledge there’s no other example of a society that tore itself apart and where people sacrificed by hundreds of thousands of their own for the freedom of a different group of people.
- bequanna 4y ago
  What an incredibly shallow and immature take on religion. Not everyone who chooses to be involved with a religion has an IQ lower than you or believes in magic. You’re missing something. Something important that religion provides for Billions of people.
fumeux_fume 4y ago

themodelplumber 4y ago

That's not true. The original people who saw it (with their spiritual senses) also claimed that others could know it was real (with their spiritual senses). If the world didn't get to see it, or can't see the literal face of, or a pointy appendage of God, or can't see the difference between this religion and every other religion that makes claims based on one's subjective spiritual senses, then that's a problem for them (and their obvious spiritual deficiency). Why does everyone leave out the important details??

arise 4y ago
With all due respect, this is an extremely theological version of the Emperor's New Clothes: conveniently non-falsifiable and if anyone points it out, they're a bad person.
cryptophreak 4y ago
Probably because one man's important details is another's gibberish.
shijie 4y ago
> Why does everyone leave out the important details?? Most people are more interested in a narrative than they are the truth.

bolt7469 4y ago

TFA is blatantly wrong: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/three?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/th... https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/eight?lang=eng https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/ei...

Forbo 4y ago
They only saw them with their "spiritual eyes". https://read.cesletter.org/witnesses/#second-sight https://read.cesletter.org/witnesses/#second-sight Former member, it hurts seeing everything that I " knew" to be true turn out to be complete falsehoods. I encourage you to read the sourced and cited first-party quotations. I'm sorry, and I hope nothing but the best for you and yours.

dang 4y ago

Let's not go into a religious flamewar please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html