3 ms·

This is definitely one of those "it's going to get worse before it gets better" kind of things, because the increasing price of everything means that people are

by xracy 4y ago

This is definitely one of those "it's going to get worse before it gets better" kind of things, because the increasing price of everything means that people are not going to have better upward mobility (out of homelessness) anytime soon. If we wanted that, we should've invested in low-income housing, and public transit infrastructure so that people could live elsewhere, and commute. Also, healthcare for folks who struggle with mental health. Lacking investment in those things, I imagine we can't start the clock on when this might get fixed.

xpe 4y ago
> If we wanted [better upward mobility (out of homelessness)], we should've invested in low-income housing, and public transit infrastructure so that people could live elsewhere, and commute. Also, healthcare for folks who struggle with mental health. I want to focus on the "If we wanted that," part. The "we" part is notable and problematic. I'll mention two senses here: * desire (measured by preference aggregation): what do "we" want, based on aggregating (somehow) individual preferences * action (collective action): what can we agree to do? My point is this: Just because _action_ hasn't happened does not mean that _desire_ is not there. There is big gap between the two. One recipe is: 1. define the group with the desire 2. find and organize them 3. identify the common preferences 4. accumulate political capital 5. wield the power I'm not a naive optimist; this is hard. But don't assume the _desire_ is not there! It takes effort to align a previously scattered group of people into something with cohesion and identity.
- xracy 4y ago
  oh, yeah, I mean, clearly people want the symptoms fixed. And I think a reasonable number of people want to live in a city with low-income housing, public transit, and mental healthcare for all who need it. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't want that. But I think the specific things when suggested, are things people oppose. "I want public transit, but I don't want them to put it on my street". Also, full agreement that I'm not able to comment that people don't actually want this, only that the elected officials (and other powerful people) don't appear to want this (in Seattle). That is definitely who I'm referring to.
xpe 4y ago
> we should've invested in low-income housing, and public transit infrastructure so that people could live elsewhere, and commute. Also, healthcare for folks who struggle with mental health. How far do you think Seattle can get on its own? What kind of assistance is needed from the county? ... Washington state? ... the federal government? P.S. I realize this is an easy question to ask but difficult to answer in any reasonable amount of space. I'd be happy to read recommended articles on case studies or data-oriented comparisons.
- jahewson 4y ago
  Honestly investing in just any reasonable amount of housing and transport would have helped but we had an entire generation just not bother and dump that cost onto us. Low-income housing is by necessity low-cost housing and that’s simply not achievable in an age of expensive land, expensive labor, and expensive materials.
- xracy 4y ago
  I will grant that Seattle is currently investing in public transit. And that in the next 10-15 years, they have the opportunity to improve that situation greatly (providing people good/consistent transit to downtown). There's a lot of the missing middle in Seattle for housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o&ab_channel=NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o&ab_channel=NotJu... Which has been demonstrated to pay for itself (and support other businesses). Zoning for this would go a long way towards helping to alleviate the increasing cost of housing. (Also actively/readily) makes more money than it costs to maintain. I think there's also something to be said for getting rid of cars in Downtown Seattle (still need to provide good accessible options). I originally clicked on this article in hopes that was what people were doing. Tangent: Shuffling homeless people around with cement "eco" blocks (legitimately interested in the etymology of that name) turned out to be the sad waste of resources we were going for here... Mental Health feels a lot more difficult than this. Probably needs more of a national fix cause healthcare is too expensive and inaccessible in the US.

by xracy 4y ago

xpe 4y ago

> If we wanted [better upward mobility (out of homelessness)], we should've invested in low-income housing, and public transit infrastructure so that people could live elsewhere, and commute. Also, healthcare for folks who struggle with mental health. I want to focus on the "If we wanted that," part. The "we" part is notable and problematic. I'll mention two senses here: * desire (measured by preference aggregation): what do "we" want, based on aggregating (somehow) individual preferences * action (collective action): what can we agree to do? My point is this: Just because _action_ hasn't happened does not mean that _desire_ is not there. There is big gap between the two. One recipe is: 1. define the group with the desire 2. find and organize them 3. identify the common preferences 4. accumulate political capital 5. wield the power I'm not a naive optimist; this is hard. But don't assume the _desire_ is not there! It takes effort to align a previously scattered group of people into something with cohesion and identity.

xracy 4y ago
oh, yeah, I mean, clearly people want the symptoms fixed. And I think a reasonable number of people want to live in a city with low-income housing, public transit, and mental healthcare for all who need it. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't want that. But I think the specific things when suggested, are things people oppose. "I want public transit, but I don't want them to put it on my street". Also, full agreement that I'm not able to comment that people don't actually want this, only that the elected officials (and other powerful people) don't appear to want this (in Seattle). That is definitely who I'm referring to.

xpe 4y ago

> we should've invested in low-income housing, and public transit infrastructure so that people could live elsewhere, and commute. Also, healthcare for folks who struggle with mental health. How far do you think Seattle can get on its own? What kind of assistance is needed from the county? ... Washington state? ... the federal government? P.S. I realize this is an easy question to ask but difficult to answer in any reasonable amount of space. I'd be happy to read recommended articles on case studies or data-oriented comparisons.

jahewson 4y ago
Honestly investing in just any reasonable amount of housing and transport would have helped but we had an entire generation just not bother and dump that cost onto us. Low-income housing is by necessity low-cost housing and that’s simply not achievable in an age of expensive land, expensive labor, and expensive materials.
xracy 4y ago
I will grant that Seattle is currently investing in public transit. And that in the next 10-15 years, they have the opportunity to improve that situation greatly (providing people good/consistent transit to downtown). There's a lot of the missing middle in Seattle for housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o&ab_channel=NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o&ab_channel=NotJu... Which has been demonstrated to pay for itself (and support other businesses). Zoning for this would go a long way towards helping to alleviate the increasing cost of housing. (Also actively/readily) makes more money than it costs to maintain. I think there's also something to be said for getting rid of cars in Downtown Seattle (still need to provide good accessible options). I originally clicked on this article in hopes that was what people were doing. Tangent: Shuffling homeless people around with cement "eco" blocks (legitimately interested in the etymology of that name) turned out to be the sad waste of resources we were going for here... Mental Health feels a lot more difficult than this. Probably needs more of a national fix cause healthcare is too expensive and inaccessible in the US.