5 ms·

It's not "free", the property owners pay property taxes. The majority of roads inside cities in the US are paid for and maintained with property taxes.

jeffbee 4y ago
Are you suggesting that curbside parking should be available only to property owners? In what proportion? As I recently published at [1], my city of Berkeley does not raise anywhere near enough money from property taxes to pave the city streets. If you think the majority of roads in the United States are paved with property tax revenues, I'd like to see your math. 1: https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-east-bay#cell-1029 https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-eas...
- Spooky23 4y ago
  California is totally different. The voters chose to make the place ungovernable and broken. Local streets are a local responsibility. The state or Federal government will provide grants for ADA amenities or multi model transportation.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    An analysis that starts with "most of the country" and then proceeds to "except California" is immediately suspect. In any case I'm still not seeing any concrete claims. I know that property tax payers believe they pay for this, but the question is: do they?
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      Where I live, cities have home rule responsibility including local highway maintenance. The city’s general fund is primarily funded by property taxes, followed by a prorata share of sales tax and various fees. Suburban and rural towns are a little different - the state maintains state roads and US Highways, mostly with income, sales and excise tax. Counties maintain county roads, mostly with property and sales tax. Given California’s strange relationship with property tax and the inherent inequality associated with it, it’s a different animal.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        All of the things in your first paragraph are true of my city, but they don't imply that my city funds road maintenance in a steady state (it does not, in fact). What's missing in your analysis is that a large fraction of American roads have simply never been maintained. They were laid down initially, often paid for by developer fees, and never touched again. So, your analysis still leaves the question unanswered.
- strictnein 4y ago
  You stated it was free. I stated it wasn't. Not sure how you twisted my statement to say that its use should be restricted only to property owners. I also said "the roads inside cities", which excludes county roads, state highways, and interstates. But people do not typically park on those. It's telling that a city in California doesn't have enough property taxes to pay for their roads. It's almost like Prop 13 causes problems.

jeffbee 4y ago

Are you suggesting that curbside parking should be available only to property owners? In what proportion? As I recently published at [1], my city of Berkeley does not raise anywhere near enough money from property taxes to pave the city streets. If you think the majority of roads in the United States are paved with property tax revenues, I'd like to see your math. 1: https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-east-bay#cell-1029 https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-eas...

Spooky23 4y ago
California is totally different. The voters chose to make the place ungovernable and broken. Local streets are a local responsibility. The state or Federal government will provide grants for ADA amenities or multi model transportation.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  An analysis that starts with "most of the country" and then proceeds to "except California" is immediately suspect. In any case I'm still not seeing any concrete claims. I know that property tax payers believe they pay for this, but the question is: do they?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Where I live, cities have home rule responsibility including local highway maintenance. The city’s general fund is primarily funded by property taxes, followed by a prorata share of sales tax and various fees. Suburban and rural towns are a little different - the state maintains state roads and US Highways, mostly with income, sales and excise tax. Counties maintain county roads, mostly with property and sales tax. Given California’s strange relationship with property tax and the inherent inequality associated with it, it’s a different animal.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      All of the things in your first paragraph are true of my city, but they don't imply that my city funds road maintenance in a steady state (it does not, in fact). What's missing in your analysis is that a large fraction of American roads have simply never been maintained. They were laid down initially, often paid for by developer fees, and never touched again. So, your analysis still leaves the question unanswered.
strictnein 4y ago
You stated it was free. I stated it wasn't. Not sure how you twisted my statement to say that its use should be restricted only to property owners. I also said "the roads inside cities", which excludes county roads, state highways, and interstates. But people do not typically park on those. It's telling that a city in California doesn't have enough property taxes to pay for their roads. It's almost like Prop 13 causes problems.