5 ms·

I think of public parking spaces as having a ~3hour limit. If they're actually camping spots, why limit them to RVs?

by 8note 4y ago

jeffbee 4y ago
Hey, you're pretty close to a breakthrough here. The real question is why American cities provide little free or near-free storage for private property, if and only if that private property is in the form of cars.
- Swizec 4y ago
  Yep there shouldn’t be free parking anywhere. Make drivers bear the full cost of their habits. Of course if a business/person wants to provide free parking on their property, that’s fine. But they shouldn’t be required to by zoning. edit: disabled parking should be free, that’s different
  - forrestthewoods 4y ago
    > Make drivers bear the full cost of their habits. I don’t think public transit riders should be forced to pay the full price of their habit. Nor do I think cities shouldn’t charge taxes and spend the revenue on both roads and yes even curb side parking. It’s quite reasonable for cities to fund numerous modes of transit.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      NYC is experimenting with this now. The NYPD is pissed off and not enforcing turnstile jumping.
    - Swizec 4y ago
      I agree in theory. The issue is that some of those modes of transport are more efficient (when done right) and should be encouraged. The funny thing is that you wouldn’t even need to make parking super expensive to act as a huge disincentive. $1/h is enough to change behavior.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - pxmpxm 4y ago
    Chicago finally did that couple years back, parking meters in the loop are making minimum wage. It's still crazy to me that I can park a block away from the world trade center for $0 (there's usually open spots around the federal reserve on the weekend), when the real estate there goes for $1500+ per sq ft
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      If I have business in lower Manhattan on a Sunday afternoon, why is it more efficient to have me spend 10x the money and 5x the time to use public transportation than to just drive? Why spend the money on rule enforcement? You’d probably expend more money having cops pointlessly drive around writing tickets for meter.
      - pxmpxm 4y ago
        So this actually ends up being net benefit for the businesses in the area - having paid meters means there's actual turnover in the cars parked. Before the meter change in Chicago, it would be next to impossible to find a parking spot in the loop - people were essentially using street parking as free week-at-a-time car storage. At $8/hr or whatever they run now, you can actually find open spots when you need them.
- strictnein 4y ago
  It's not "free", the property owners pay property taxes. The majority of roads inside cities in the US are paid for and maintained with property taxes.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Are you suggesting that curbside parking should be available only to property owners? In what proportion? As I recently published at [1], my city of Berkeley does not raise anywhere near enough money from property taxes to pave the city streets. If you think the majority of roads in the United States are paved with property tax revenues, I'd like to see your math. 1: https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-east-bay#cell-1029 https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-eas...
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      California is totally different. The voters chose to make the place ungovernable and broken. Local streets are a local responsibility. The state or Federal government will provide grants for ADA amenities or multi model transportation.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        An analysis that starts with "most of the country" and then proceeds to "except California" is immediately suspect. In any case I'm still not seeing any concrete claims. I know that property tax payers believe they pay for this, but the question is: do they?
        Spooky23 4y ago
        Where I live, cities have home rule responsibility including local highway maintenance. The city’s general fund is primarily funded by property taxes, followed by a prorata share of sales tax and various fees. Suburban and rural towns are a little different - the state maintains state roads and US Highways, mostly with income, sales and excise tax. Counties maintain county roads, mostly with property and sales tax. Given California’s strange relationship with property tax and the inherent inequality associated with it, it’s a different animal.

I think of public parking spaces as having a ~3hour limit. If they're actually camping spots, why limit them to RVs?

by 8note 4y ago

I think of public parking spaces as having a ~3hour limit. If they're actually camping spots, why limit them to RVs?

Hey, you're pretty close to a breakthrough here. The real question is why American cities provide little free or near-free storage for private property, if and only if that private property is in the form of cars.

Swizec 4y ago
Yep there shouldn’t be free parking anywhere. Make drivers bear the full cost of their habits. Of course if a business/person wants to provide free parking on their property, that’s fine. But they shouldn’t be required to by zoning. edit: disabled parking should be free, that’s different
- forrestthewoods 4y ago
  > Make drivers bear the full cost of their habits. I don’t think public transit riders should be forced to pay the full price of their habit. Nor do I think cities shouldn’t charge taxes and spend the revenue on both roads and yes even curb side parking. It’s quite reasonable for cities to fund numerous modes of transit.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    NYC is experimenting with this now. The NYPD is pissed off and not enforcing turnstile jumping.
  - Swizec 4y ago
    I agree in theory. The issue is that some of those modes of transport are more efficient (when done right) and should be encouraged. The funny thing is that you wouldn’t even need to make parking super expensive to act as a huge disincentive. $1/h is enough to change behavior.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- pxmpxm 4y ago
  Chicago finally did that couple years back, parking meters in the loop are making minimum wage. It's still crazy to me that I can park a block away from the world trade center for $0 (there's usually open spots around the federal reserve on the weekend), when the real estate there goes for $1500+ per sq ft
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    If I have business in lower Manhattan on a Sunday afternoon, why is it more efficient to have me spend 10x the money and 5x the time to use public transportation than to just drive? Why spend the money on rule enforcement? You’d probably expend more money having cops pointlessly drive around writing tickets for meter.
    - pxmpxm 4y ago
      So this actually ends up being net benefit for the businesses in the area - having paid meters means there's actual turnover in the cars parked. Before the meter change in Chicago, it would be next to impossible to find a parking spot in the loop - people were essentially using street parking as free week-at-a-time car storage. At $8/hr or whatever they run now, you can actually find open spots when you need them.
strictnein 4y ago
It's not "free", the property owners pay property taxes. The majority of roads inside cities in the US are paid for and maintained with property taxes.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Are you suggesting that curbside parking should be available only to property owners? In what proportion? As I recently published at [1], my city of Berkeley does not raise anywhere near enough money from property taxes to pave the city streets. If you think the majority of roads in the United States are paved with property tax revenues, I'd like to see your math. 1: https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-east-bay#cell-1029 https://observablehq.com/@jwb/property-tax-whales-of-the-eas...
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    California is totally different. The voters chose to make the place ungovernable and broken. Local streets are a local responsibility. The state or Federal government will provide grants for ADA amenities or multi model transportation.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      An analysis that starts with "most of the country" and then proceeds to "except California" is immediately suspect. In any case I'm still not seeing any concrete claims. I know that property tax payers believe they pay for this, but the question is: do they?
      - Spooky23 4y ago
        Where I live, cities have home rule responsibility including local highway maintenance. The city’s general fund is primarily funded by property taxes, followed by a prorata share of sales tax and various fees. Suburban and rural towns are a little different - the state maintains state roads and US Highways, mostly with income, sales and excise tax. Counties maintain county roads, mostly with property and sales tax. Given California’s strange relationship with property tax and the inherent inequality associated with it, it’s a different animal.