9 ms·

Yep, it's a sad state of affairs that if one lives in these neighborhoods, ones choices are to put out these blocks or to have one's street become unlivable

slater 4y ago
- chrsig 4y ago
  Obviously there's a lot of potential options to solving the problem at large, not so much on a small scale. honestly, having been a resident of Seattle, I understand where the people are coming from placing the concrete blocks. I don't think it's the right solution, but given what control residents actually have, it's understandable. Instead of snarking about a false dichotomy, can you provide any productive suggestions for residents (i.e., not city policy makers) to improve the situation?
  - slater 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      When your home becomes awash in dirty needles and fist fights, you can lecture the rest of us about "punching down". It's not crazy or entitled to want your home to be safe and not an open air sewage pit. Go actually stay in or near one of these encampments for a bit. When my city was tired of them, the encampments moved to the mayors office as a form of protest. The mayor went from being pro-encampments to demanding extra security details.
      - slater 4y ago
        Not lecturing anyone. I was asked a question, I answered. Also, I live in San Francisco. Depending on who you ask, I can barely close my front door due to all the feces and needles!
    - forrestthewoods 4y ago
      > Vote in folks that plan to solve underlying problems, not vague "i'm gonna crack down on crime!" band-aids Seattle did that. Repeatedly. For years. After endless failure and things getting worse people got fed up and voted the other way. Check back in 3 years to see if they’re happy with the outcome or if the pendulum will swing back.
    - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      > Vote in folks that plan to solve underlying problems, not vague "i'm gonna crack down on crime!" band-aids. That's what the vast majority of people who run for local office try to do, the problem is that the issues like this tend to be far more complex than a soundbite can solve. There are two problems here: legislative and enforcement. RVs park illegally overnight in neighborhoods,which leads to public health issues like how to deal with their wastewater, etc. The city fails to enforce the law, and residents respond by illegally putting up concrete barriers. Nobody wins reelection by spending lots of money and causing the city budget to increase, which would realistically be necessary in order to take enforcement seriously. So I guess that's a long-winded way of asking: what should a problem-solver local candidate do in this situation?
      - chrsig 4y ago
        there's actually more than that to it.. the state supreme court actually ruled that an RV is legally someone's home, which really limited the city's ability to do much about the situation https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/publicupload/eclips/2021%2008%2016%20Washington%20states%20Supreme%20Court%20largely%20upholds%20ruling%20that%20homeless%20mans%20truck%20is%20a%20home.pdf https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/publicupload/eclips/2021%2...
      - lokedhs 4y ago
        > Nobody wins reelection by spending lots of money and causing the city budget to increase Is this a fact though? I'm sure things are drastically different in the US, but in the places that I have experience with, proposing to increase budget for popular things is definitely an election winner, often even if such promises goes hand in hand with explaining that taxes will be increased to cover it.
        codefreeordie 4y ago
        It works once, but once you've spent the money, but the problem is even worse now, which is pretty much always the case, it's hard to win again.
    - codefreeordie 4y ago
      The 1960s were a long time ago. It's pretty sad that "as good as the 1960s" is now an unobtainable aspirational goal.
    - chrsig 4y ago
      Neither of those things really help when you've got 10 RVs on your street and a random pile of human feces on the sidewalk. or there's someone passed out literally on the doorstep of your workplace. Like...it's just not _actionable_. You're still talking on a group level rather than an individual...and even then, the mere presence of empathy doesn't do anything. > 2) Learn about this crazy thing called "empathy", instead of punching down. I want to call this out specifically, because Seattle's a city that's really filled to the brim with empathy and compassion. Yeah, there are definitely some people that're just concerned with their home value. There's more that really do want to see the problem solved in a way where everyone benefits. It's really easy to berate anyone that's frustrated with the situation. It's a lot harder to come up with solutions that really will work and make them happen. > Not the homeowners, cos heaven forfend we make them pay for anything. I mean...it doesn't make sense to fine the homeowners that most likely had nothing to do with it at all. Fining them just turns them into victims. I'm sure if the police were really interested in finding whodunit, there's enough ring footage around to be able to find out.
    - mbrodersen 4y ago
      - dang 4y ago
        Flamewar comments like this are against the site guidelines, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We ban accounts that post like this, so please don't post like this. You also posted three copies of this comment. That's abusive. No more of that, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        codefreeordie 4y ago
        These comments posting the guidelines and threatening bans would probably be more effective if they were applied with a high degree of even-handedness instead of as a relatively heavy weight on the scales of debate when the wrong opinions are voiced. If it is within the bounds of legitimate debate to repeatedly assail everyone who disagrees with you as being racist, having no empathy, and wanting to murder homeless people, as the person this "flame" was responding to has done all over this thread, then it's definitely within the bounds of legitimate debate to ask the flame warrior to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Or, taken the other way, if the comment that you replied to is ban-worthy abuse, then why have you not taken action against the much greater abuser which incited this fairly mildly flame-y response? Personally, I'd rather have a flame-free open discussion board here, and as written, the guidelines do too, but allowing unlimited abuse from the pro-enforced-narrative viewpoint on any and every topic while posting ban threats like this in almost every thread where someone questions the enforced narrative is not the way to get there. It does help provide public evidence of top-down narrative enforcement, which I suppose is vaguely useful, since it makes it harder for people to pretend that narrative enforcement isn't happening, but the actually open discussion, without narrative enforcement, would be better and, I believe, more in keeping with the guidelines. The guidelines as written do not require adherence to the narrative nor do they offer immunity to posts in furtherance or support of the narrative anywhere that I can find. Please moderate the narrative enforcers like you would non-adherents. That would make this site better and would be more in keeping with the guidelines, regardless of how correct the narrative is, or how correct you feel the narrative is.
    - munificent 4y ago
      If you consider empathy critical, you may want to consider demonstrating some instead of stereotyping and insulting people.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  What do you propose for the individual to do?

slater 4y ago

chrsig 4y ago
Obviously there's a lot of potential options to solving the problem at large, not so much on a small scale. honestly, having been a resident of Seattle, I understand where the people are coming from placing the concrete blocks. I don't think it's the right solution, but given what control residents actually have, it's understandable. Instead of snarking about a false dichotomy, can you provide any productive suggestions for residents (i.e., not city policy makers) to improve the situation?
- slater 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    When your home becomes awash in dirty needles and fist fights, you can lecture the rest of us about "punching down". It's not crazy or entitled to want your home to be safe and not an open air sewage pit. Go actually stay in or near one of these encampments for a bit. When my city was tired of them, the encampments moved to the mayors office as a form of protest. The mayor went from being pro-encampments to demanding extra security details.
    - slater 4y ago
      Not lecturing anyone. I was asked a question, I answered. Also, I live in San Francisco. Depending on who you ask, I can barely close my front door due to all the feces and needles!
  - forrestthewoods 4y ago
    > Vote in folks that plan to solve underlying problems, not vague "i'm gonna crack down on crime!" band-aids Seattle did that. Repeatedly. For years. After endless failure and things getting worse people got fed up and voted the other way. Check back in 3 years to see if they’re happy with the outcome or if the pendulum will swing back.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    > Vote in folks that plan to solve underlying problems, not vague "i'm gonna crack down on crime!" band-aids. That's what the vast majority of people who run for local office try to do, the problem is that the issues like this tend to be far more complex than a soundbite can solve. There are two problems here: legislative and enforcement. RVs park illegally overnight in neighborhoods,which leads to public health issues like how to deal with their wastewater, etc. The city fails to enforce the law, and residents respond by illegally putting up concrete barriers. Nobody wins reelection by spending lots of money and causing the city budget to increase, which would realistically be necessary in order to take enforcement seriously. So I guess that's a long-winded way of asking: what should a problem-solver local candidate do in this situation?
    - chrsig 4y ago
      there's actually more than that to it.. the state supreme court actually ruled that an RV is legally someone's home, which really limited the city's ability to do much about the situation https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/publicupload/eclips/2021%2008%2016%20Washington%20states%20Supreme%20Court%20largely%20upholds%20ruling%20that%20homeless%20mans%20truck%20is%20a%20home.pdf https://www.courts.wa.gov/content/publicupload/eclips/2021%2...
    - lokedhs 4y ago
      > Nobody wins reelection by spending lots of money and causing the city budget to increase Is this a fact though? I'm sure things are drastically different in the US, but in the places that I have experience with, proposing to increase budget for popular things is definitely an election winner, often even if such promises goes hand in hand with explaining that taxes will be increased to cover it.
      - codefreeordie 4y ago
        It works once, but once you've spent the money, but the problem is even worse now, which is pretty much always the case, it's hard to win again.
  - codefreeordie 4y ago
    The 1960s were a long time ago. It's pretty sad that "as good as the 1960s" is now an unobtainable aspirational goal.
  - chrsig 4y ago
    Neither of those things really help when you've got 10 RVs on your street and a random pile of human feces on the sidewalk. or there's someone passed out literally on the doorstep of your workplace. Like...it's just not _actionable_. You're still talking on a group level rather than an individual...and even then, the mere presence of empathy doesn't do anything. > 2) Learn about this crazy thing called "empathy", instead of punching down. I want to call this out specifically, because Seattle's a city that's really filled to the brim with empathy and compassion. Yeah, there are definitely some people that're just concerned with their home value. There's more that really do want to see the problem solved in a way where everyone benefits. It's really easy to berate anyone that's frustrated with the situation. It's a lot harder to come up with solutions that really will work and make them happen. > Not the homeowners, cos heaven forfend we make them pay for anything. I mean...it doesn't make sense to fine the homeowners that most likely had nothing to do with it at all. Fining them just turns them into victims. I'm sure if the police were really interested in finding whodunit, there's enough ring footage around to be able to find out.
  - mbrodersen 4y ago
    - dang 4y ago
      Flamewar comments like this are against the site guidelines, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We ban accounts that post like this, so please don't post like this. You also posted three copies of this comment. That's abusive. No more of that, please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - codefreeordie 4y ago
        These comments posting the guidelines and threatening bans would probably be more effective if they were applied with a high degree of even-handedness instead of as a relatively heavy weight on the scales of debate when the wrong opinions are voiced. If it is within the bounds of legitimate debate to repeatedly assail everyone who disagrees with you as being racist, having no empathy, and wanting to murder homeless people, as the person this "flame" was responding to has done all over this thread, then it's definitely within the bounds of legitimate debate to ask the flame warrior to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Or, taken the other way, if the comment that you replied to is ban-worthy abuse, then why have you not taken action against the much greater abuser which incited this fairly mildly flame-y response? Personally, I'd rather have a flame-free open discussion board here, and as written, the guidelines do too, but allowing unlimited abuse from the pro-enforced-narrative viewpoint on any and every topic while posting ban threats like this in almost every thread where someone questions the enforced narrative is not the way to get there. It does help provide public evidence of top-down narrative enforcement, which I suppose is vaguely useful, since it makes it harder for people to pretend that narrative enforcement isn't happening, but the actually open discussion, without narrative enforcement, would be better and, I believe, more in keeping with the guidelines. The guidelines as written do not require adherence to the narrative nor do they offer immunity to posts in furtherance or support of the narrative anywhere that I can find. Please moderate the narrative enforcers like you would non-adherents. That would make this site better and would be more in keeping with the guidelines, regardless of how correct the narrative is, or how correct you feel the narrative is.
  - munificent 4y ago
    If you consider empathy critical, you may want to consider demonstrating some instead of stereotyping and insulting people.
DiggyJohnson 4y ago
What do you propose for the individual to do?