4 ms·

> Where I live, public transit is faster than driving 90% of the time, the same speed 5% of the time, and slower the rest. Despite the benefits that you cite,

> Where I live, public transit is faster than driving 90% of the time, the same speed 5% of the time, and slower the rest. Despite the benefits that you cite, you’re still selling something most people don’t want. Or, if they do use it they dislike it and still use a car for the majority of their other travel.

woodruffw 4y ago
Do you have any numbers to substantiate this? Most people in NYC like the subway, even the ones who express grievances about cleanliness, crime, &c. It's a cornerstone of the city's convenience and culture. At the turn of the century, most people didn't want cars on their city streets; that's what the article we're discussing is all about. What the average American (not just NYer) wants changes over time; I consider my support for public transit to be merely an investment in a perceptual shift that's already taking place.
- bequanna 4y ago
  > Most people in NYC like the subway It may come as a surprise to people in NYC that, in fact, most people don't live in NYC. Seriously tho, if you asked most people in the US who utilize public transit they would tell you they do so out of necessity, not choice.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    > It may come as a surprise to people in NYC that, in fact, most people don't live in NYC. What's the point of this? People in NYC overwhelmingly use public transit; they're a logical group to sample from. Correspondingly, it makes no sense to ask people who don't use public transit how they feel about it. "Most people who utilize public transit" is a mixture of demographics, with overlap: there are a millions of Americans who live in dense urban areas and choose to take public transit because it's faster, cheaper, and more convenient than owning a care. There are also millions of Americans who are economically disenfranchised and rely on ailing bus networks to get to work. The two overlap, but the latter is much larger outside of major cities. In brief: the US's failure to design and allocate public transit systems (a problem that's been more or less solved in every other country in the world) taints any objective measurement of public transit perception as a whole. If you look at the places where it's even done half right (like NYC), perception is extremely positive.
    - frumper 4y ago
      I live in a small city of about 60k. To get to work I drive through a city of 350k, 50k, 20k, then into a city of 250k. Each of these cities is 5-10 miles apart. It's a straight shot on the freeway, there isn't much traffic. We average 75mph on the freeway with room for people to go faster and slower. America is a big place. Problems New Yorkers have with cars/parking are different that much of the country.
  - addicted 4y ago
    So you think it’s a good idea to judge whether people like driving vs mass transit based on areas that have no mass transit vs areas which have both? That seems illogical at best. People in areas that have high quality mass transit almost always prefer mass transit over cars. And areas which have decent biking infrastructure overwhelmingly prefer biking over other alternatives.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
People don't like their existing, crappy public transit, sure. The whole idea is to get good public transit instead. Americans who take the train in Tokyo or Seoul find it to be just fine. Ditto for Americans biking in Amsterdam or Copenhagen.

woodruffw 4y ago

Do you have any numbers to substantiate this? Most people in NYC like the subway, even the ones who express grievances about cleanliness, crime, &c. It's a cornerstone of the city's convenience and culture. At the turn of the century, most people didn't want cars on their city streets; that's what the article we're discussing is all about. What the average American (not just NYer) wants changes over time; I consider my support for public transit to be merely an investment in a perceptual shift that's already taking place.

bequanna 4y ago
> Most people in NYC like the subway It may come as a surprise to people in NYC that, in fact, most people don't live in NYC. Seriously tho, if you asked most people in the US who utilize public transit they would tell you they do so out of necessity, not choice.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  > It may come as a surprise to people in NYC that, in fact, most people don't live in NYC. What's the point of this? People in NYC overwhelmingly use public transit; they're a logical group to sample from. Correspondingly, it makes no sense to ask people who don't use public transit how they feel about it. "Most people who utilize public transit" is a mixture of demographics, with overlap: there are a millions of Americans who live in dense urban areas and choose to take public transit because it's faster, cheaper, and more convenient than owning a care. There are also millions of Americans who are economically disenfranchised and rely on ailing bus networks to get to work. The two overlap, but the latter is much larger outside of major cities. In brief: the US's failure to design and allocate public transit systems (a problem that's been more or less solved in every other country in the world) taints any objective measurement of public transit perception as a whole. If you look at the places where it's even done half right (like NYC), perception is extremely positive.
  - frumper 4y ago
    I live in a small city of about 60k. To get to work I drive through a city of 350k, 50k, 20k, then into a city of 250k. Each of these cities is 5-10 miles apart. It's a straight shot on the freeway, there isn't much traffic. We average 75mph on the freeway with room for people to go faster and slower. America is a big place. Problems New Yorkers have with cars/parking are different that much of the country.
- addicted 4y ago
  So you think it’s a good idea to judge whether people like driving vs mass transit based on areas that have no mass transit vs areas which have both? That seems illogical at best. People in areas that have high quality mass transit almost always prefer mass transit over cars. And areas which have decent biking infrastructure overwhelmingly prefer biking over other alternatives.

TulliusCicero 4y ago

People don't like their existing, crappy public transit, sure. The whole idea is to get good public transit instead. Americans who take the train in Tokyo or Seoul find it to be just fine. Ditto for Americans biking in Amsterdam or Copenhagen.