4 ms·

Probably completely anecdote evidence, but plastic piping needs to be replaced every 20-ish years, while copper has easily last multiple decades. 20 years is f

Probably completely anecdote evidence, but plastic piping needs to be replaced every 20-ish years, while copper has easily last multiple decades. 20 years is fine assuming all the piping is easy to get to (e.g. around a hot water heater). A lot of piping is not and would require refinishing quite of a bit of piping. My research seems to indicate most residential plastic tubing still has a lifetime of 20 years, from what I can tell.

jefftk 4y ago
20 years sounds really short to me? I've seen numbers quoted anywhere from 30 to 50 for PEX.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yeah I know of CPVC piping that is at well over 20 years and still OK. It does get brittle with age though.
  - samtho 4y ago
    CPVC is brittle right off the factory line. Improper handling during transport and install are suspected to be the bulk of the issues down the road. Tiny micro-fractures occur when the pipe is dropped, struck, or even left to sit in the sun too long, which creates weak points and eventual failure. The only use I’ve seen for CPVC in modern installs is the discharge pipe for the TMP valve on water heaters. Can’t use regular PVC because it’s not rated for heated water.
- just_boost_it 4y ago
  I'm in a 25 year old building and we had to replace all the plastic piping last year. The pipes became fragile and started randomly bursting. In about 50 apartments, we were having about 2 leaks a year, and were finding it hard to find plumbing companies to actually repair them.
  - jdhn 4y ago
    Were they CPVC pipes? PEX usually doesn't randomly burst unless it's installed incredibly improperly or there's a major manufacturing defect.
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      I believe I've ABS pipes in the condo in suburban hell, but one cracked and left a pretty nasty mess. The whole development is about 40 years old so maybe it's age related, maybe not. One thing I've learned is that these pipes had a high rate of defects when new. It's been interesting living in a new-ish apartment building. Everything in the condo was garbage (the early 80s were not kind to construction in the US) assembled reasonably well. Everything in this apartment is pretty reasonable quality assembled by a small army of blind glue sniffing idiots. My concern with plastic pipes is wildfire. Up in the north bay the municipal water was rendered toxic and unusable after fires got things hot enough so that carcinogens were leeching into the water. That's less of a concern with individual buildings, but it's not fun when a city or water district has to rip everything out of the ground.
      - ChoGGi 4y ago
        If it's gray plastic that's poly b, they're banned around here for that.
        inferiorhuman 4y ago
        I couldn't tell you what cities laid down up north, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'll build it back with something else (plastic or otherwise). My place has black plastic pipes that I think are explicitly called out as ABS.
  - coryrc 4y ago
    That was probably polybutylene. PEX has been installed even before that (since the 1950s) and proven longevity, while polybutylene piping was already beset with lawsuits in the 1980s. As usual, the USA only does the right thing after exhausting all other options. Actually, I'm remembering there were some widespread failures of PEX-C. Hmm.
aardvarkr 4y ago
A quick google search shows that pvc piping has a lifespan of 100 years.[0] Please edit your post to acknowledge this. [0] https://www.ipexna.com/media/3074/pvc-pipe-longevity-report.pdf https://www.ipexna.com/media/3074/pvc-pipe-longevity-report....
samtho 4y ago
PEX-A (expansion PEX) almost all have a limited warranty period of 20-25 years depending on manufacture. It’s minimum reported lifespan is closer to 40-50 years with it estimated to be as high as 100 years depending on water quality, usage, other factors.
- teeray 4y ago
  > limited warranty period of 20-25 years depending on manufacture If there’s a significant enough problem, these construction manufacturers have a tendency to go out of business and reorganize, voiding all the warranties in the process.
  - eru 4y ago
    In theory, you could get warranties from longer lived organisations. Eg from big insurers like Allianz or Axa. (If there's a market.)
tenpies 4y ago
Replacement-cost aside, I have wondered if there is a health benefit to using copper pipes over plastic pipes, namely in avoiding micro-plastics. It seems a hard question to get an answer for, as most research I have found is clearly sponsored by the PVC industry.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  PEX isn’t PVC. I would definitely avoid using PVC for anything in drinking water contact because of the phthalates used as plasticisers. PEX on the other hand doesn’t need plasticisers, and I don’t think it should really abrade to create microplastics in normal use…

jefftk 4y ago

20 years sounds really short to me? I've seen numbers quoted anywhere from 30 to 50 for PEX.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yeah I know of CPVC piping that is at well over 20 years and still OK. It does get brittle with age though.
- samtho 4y ago
  CPVC is brittle right off the factory line. Improper handling during transport and install are suspected to be the bulk of the issues down the road. Tiny micro-fractures occur when the pipe is dropped, struck, or even left to sit in the sun too long, which creates weak points and eventual failure. The only use I’ve seen for CPVC in modern installs is the discharge pipe for the TMP valve on water heaters. Can’t use regular PVC because it’s not rated for heated water.
just_boost_it 4y ago
I'm in a 25 year old building and we had to replace all the plastic piping last year. The pipes became fragile and started randomly bursting. In about 50 apartments, we were having about 2 leaks a year, and were finding it hard to find plumbing companies to actually repair them.
- jdhn 4y ago
  Were they CPVC pipes? PEX usually doesn't randomly burst unless it's installed incredibly improperly or there's a major manufacturing defect.
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    I believe I've ABS pipes in the condo in suburban hell, but one cracked and left a pretty nasty mess. The whole development is about 40 years old so maybe it's age related, maybe not. One thing I've learned is that these pipes had a high rate of defects when new. It's been interesting living in a new-ish apartment building. Everything in the condo was garbage (the early 80s were not kind to construction in the US) assembled reasonably well. Everything in this apartment is pretty reasonable quality assembled by a small army of blind glue sniffing idiots. My concern with plastic pipes is wildfire. Up in the north bay the municipal water was rendered toxic and unusable after fires got things hot enough so that carcinogens were leeching into the water. That's less of a concern with individual buildings, but it's not fun when a city or water district has to rip everything out of the ground.
    - ChoGGi 4y ago
      If it's gray plastic that's poly b, they're banned around here for that.
      - inferiorhuman 4y ago
        I couldn't tell you what cities laid down up north, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'll build it back with something else (plastic or otherwise). My place has black plastic pipes that I think are explicitly called out as ABS.
- coryrc 4y ago
  That was probably polybutylene. PEX has been installed even before that (since the 1950s) and proven longevity, while polybutylene piping was already beset with lawsuits in the 1980s. As usual, the USA only does the right thing after exhausting all other options. Actually, I'm remembering there were some widespread failures of PEX-C. Hmm.

aardvarkr 4y ago

A quick google search shows that pvc piping has a lifespan of 100 years.[0] Please edit your post to acknowledge this. [0] https://www.ipexna.com/media/3074/pvc-pipe-longevity-report.pdf https://www.ipexna.com/media/3074/pvc-pipe-longevity-report....

samtho 4y ago

PEX-A (expansion PEX) almost all have a limited warranty period of 20-25 years depending on manufacture. It’s minimum reported lifespan is closer to 40-50 years with it estimated to be as high as 100 years depending on water quality, usage, other factors.

teeray 4y ago
> limited warranty period of 20-25 years depending on manufacture If there’s a significant enough problem, these construction manufacturers have a tendency to go out of business and reorganize, voiding all the warranties in the process.
- eru 4y ago
  In theory, you could get warranties from longer lived organisations. Eg from big insurers like Allianz or Axa. (If there's a market.)

tenpies 4y ago

Replacement-cost aside, I have wondered if there is a health benefit to using copper pipes over plastic pipes, namely in avoiding micro-plastics. It seems a hard question to get an answer for, as most research I have found is clearly sponsored by the PVC industry.

stephen_g 4y ago
PEX isn’t PVC. I would definitely avoid using PVC for anything in drinking water contact because of the phthalates used as plasticisers. PEX on the other hand doesn’t need plasticisers, and I don’t think it should really abrade to create microplastics in normal use…