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Antonio Gramsci asserted that the reason Marx's predictions of late-stage capitalism never came to fruition was due to cultural institutions propping up capital

by chjj 4y ago

Antonio Gramsci asserted that the reason Marx's predictions of late-stage capitalism never came to fruition was due to cultural institutions propping up capitalism. He states very clearly that the (new) objective of marxism should be to establish a counter-hegemony within the existing cultural hegemony, thereby subverting it. This is all present in Gramsci's prison notebooks[1] and is common knowledge to anyone who has ever studied marxist intellectual literature at any length. I find it ridiculous that wikipedia would claim this is a "conspiracy theory". Marxists speak about this _very_ candidly in their writings. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Notebooks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Notebooks

cmeacham98 4y ago
This still does not provide any proof for the claim. Of course Marxists want to promote their ideology, even culturally. Nobody denies this. The claim made by people using the term "Cultural Marxism", and the reason it is a conspiracy theory, is that said Marxists do so for the purpose of destroying Western culture. Again, to be clear: I am not asking for proof that Marxists promoted Marxism (obviously they did), but that they did so "to subvert Western culture".
- chjj 4y ago
  Again, Gramsci and later followers of Gramsci advocated infiltrating cultural institutions and establishing a counter-hegemony to subvert the existing cultural hegemony. That should be enough to satisfy anyone's definition of cultural marxism. Read Gramsci or any other cultural marxist if you want proof. edit: I'll also point out that Mao's cultural revolution in China was the first implementation of Gramsci's vision of cultural marxism. There's no way to know whether Mao had ever read Gramsci, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  Proof of what claim dude? That actual Marxist have cultural theories and thus the term “cultural Marxism” is a description of things other than a conspiracy theory? I’m not sure what you’re arguing against at this point.
  - magicalist 4y ago
    > That actual Marxist have cultural theories and thus the term “cultural Marxism” is a description of things other than a conspiracy theory I think you're just looking for the pretty different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis with that description.
    - edgyquant 4y ago
      Right, the point is that the main article links only to the conspiracy theory and not that article. If it linked to that article people hearing e.g. Jordan Peterson use the term and then googling might be given a history of Marxist theory being applied to culture. Instead they see only that it’s an anti-Semitic right wing conspiracy theory. It’s made worse by the fact that “Marxist cultural analysis” is mentioned in the second paragraph on the “main” conspiracy page but not as a link. Regardless of belief, and I’m by no means a right winger, do you not see how this will sway the opinion of anyone who googled the term cultural Marxism?
      - magicalist 4y ago
        > If it linked to that article people hearing e.g. Jordan Peterson use the term and then googling might be given a history of Marxist theory being applied to culture. Instead they see only that it’s an anti-Semitic right wing conspiracy theory Capital C, capital M "Cultural Marxism" and "Marxist theory being applied to culture" are two different things. As a parallel, should https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda actually link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies? There are gender studies academics who work to normalize gay and trans people within popular culture (sorry, "establish[ing] a counter-hegemony within the existing cultural hegemony, thereby subverting it"). Saying that any gender theory being applied to culture should be categorized under the gay agenda would still be a category error.
        edgyquant 4y ago

by chjj 4y ago

cmeacham98 4y ago

This still does not provide any proof for the claim. Of course Marxists want to promote their ideology, even culturally. Nobody denies this. The claim made by people using the term "Cultural Marxism", and the reason it is a conspiracy theory, is that said Marxists do so for the purpose of destroying Western culture. Again, to be clear: I am not asking for proof that Marxists promoted Marxism (obviously they did), but that they did so "to subvert Western culture".

chjj 4y ago
Again, Gramsci and later followers of Gramsci advocated infiltrating cultural institutions and establishing a counter-hegemony to subvert the existing cultural hegemony. That should be enough to satisfy anyone's definition of cultural marxism. Read Gramsci or any other cultural marxist if you want proof. edit: I'll also point out that Mao's cultural revolution in China was the first implementation of Gramsci's vision of cultural marxism. There's no way to know whether Mao had ever read Gramsci, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
edgyquant 4y ago
Proof of what claim dude? That actual Marxist have cultural theories and thus the term “cultural Marxism” is a description of things other than a conspiracy theory? I’m not sure what you’re arguing against at this point.
- magicalist 4y ago
  > That actual Marxist have cultural theories and thus the term “cultural Marxism” is a description of things other than a conspiracy theory I think you're just looking for the pretty different https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_cultural_analysis with that description.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    Right, the point is that the main article links only to the conspiracy theory and not that article. If it linked to that article people hearing e.g. Jordan Peterson use the term and then googling might be given a history of Marxist theory being applied to culture. Instead they see only that it’s an anti-Semitic right wing conspiracy theory. It’s made worse by the fact that “Marxist cultural analysis” is mentioned in the second paragraph on the “main” conspiracy page but not as a link. Regardless of belief, and I’m by no means a right winger, do you not see how this will sway the opinion of anyone who googled the term cultural Marxism?
    - magicalist 4y ago
      > If it linked to that article people hearing e.g. Jordan Peterson use the term and then googling might be given a history of Marxist theory being applied to culture. Instead they see only that it’s an anti-Semitic right wing conspiracy theory Capital C, capital M "Cultural Marxism" and "Marxist theory being applied to culture" are two different things. As a parallel, should https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_agenda actually link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_studies? There are gender studies academics who work to normalize gay and trans people within popular culture (sorry, "establish[ing] a counter-hegemony within the existing cultural hegemony, thereby subverting it"). Saying that any gender theory being applied to culture should be categorized under the gay agenda would still be a category error.
      - edgyquant 4y ago