5 ms·

It’s a lot harder to collect taxes from walkers and cyclists to build that infrastructure. Drivers in theory pay for the roads and everything else. Maybe not

It’s a lot harder to collect taxes from walkers and cyclists to build that infrastructure. Drivers in theory pay for the roads and everything else. Maybe not paying enough but still.

voz_ 4y ago
They don't come close to paying for everything else when you take into account things like quality of life, safety, and more. Not everything has a price.
- ThunderSizzle 4y ago
  Living in cities with high crime and police that won't stop it with self-defense bans/punishments on those that try to defend themselves seem to be a safety hazard too.
hannasanarion 4y ago
not at prices that people are willing to pay. Suburban-style roads are cheap to build, because developers generally pay the upfront costs and price it into the initial sale price of the development, but taxes in the period that follows aren't nearly high enough to cover the price of resurfacing, repair, and improvements that the city has to cover 20-30 years down the line. Suburbs that have gone through several such cycles are increasingly taking on debt to pay the costs of that maintenance, and older ones are now going bankrupt.
jackvalentine 4y ago
> Drivers in theory pay for the roads and everything else. What theory? Roads are paid for from everyday taxes/debt issue.
- fnord123 4y ago
  Indeed. You are debunking a commonly repeated myth. https://uspirg.org/reports/usp/who-pays-roads https://uspirg.org/reports/usp/who-pays-roads > Gas taxes and other fees paid by drivers now cover less than half of road construction and maintenance costs nationally – down from more than 70 percent in the 1960s – with the balance coming chiefly from income, sales and property taxes and other levies on general taxpayers. · General taxpayers at all levels of government now subsidize highway construction and maintenance to the tune of $69 billion per year – an amount exceeding the expenditure of general tax funds to support transit, bicycling, walking and passenger rail combined.
anothernewdude 4y ago
Actually it's a lot easier. You get more rates and land tax from the denser housing you can have. Drivers don't pay for roads. They get subsidised by everyone else paying property taxes. The money out of the fuel taxes is insufficient to cover the costs that cars cause.
- iso1631 4y ago
  Why don't road users pay for the land the roads are on? Beyond construction and maintenence. If 1 square foot of land costs $600 (manhattan), and with say an opportunity cost of 2%, that's $12 a year per square foot. A 13' lane would thus cost $156 per foot, or $800k per lane-mile. Assuming an average 4 lanes per street/avenue (including parking) that would be the best part of $2bn a year for roads in Manhattan alone.

It’s a lot harder to collect taxes from walkers and cyclists to build that infrastructure. Drivers in theory pay for the roads and everything else. Maybe not paying enough but still.

voz_ 4y ago

They don't come close to paying for everything else when you take into account things like quality of life, safety, and more. Not everything has a price.

ThunderSizzle 4y ago
Living in cities with high crime and police that won't stop it with self-defense bans/punishments on those that try to defend themselves seem to be a safety hazard too.

hannasanarion 4y ago

not at prices that people are willing to pay. Suburban-style roads are cheap to build, because developers generally pay the upfront costs and price it into the initial sale price of the development, but taxes in the period that follows aren't nearly high enough to cover the price of resurfacing, repair, and improvements that the city has to cover 20-30 years down the line. Suburbs that have gone through several such cycles are increasingly taking on debt to pay the costs of that maintenance, and older ones are now going bankrupt.

jackvalentine 4y ago

> Drivers in theory pay for the roads and everything else. What theory? Roads are paid for from everyday taxes/debt issue.

fnord123 4y ago
Indeed. You are debunking a commonly repeated myth. https://uspirg.org/reports/usp/who-pays-roads https://uspirg.org/reports/usp/who-pays-roads > Gas taxes and other fees paid by drivers now cover less than half of road construction and maintenance costs nationally – down from more than 70 percent in the 1960s – with the balance coming chiefly from income, sales and property taxes and other levies on general taxpayers. · General taxpayers at all levels of government now subsidize highway construction and maintenance to the tune of $69 billion per year – an amount exceeding the expenditure of general tax funds to support transit, bicycling, walking and passenger rail combined.

anothernewdude 4y ago

Actually it's a lot easier. You get more rates and land tax from the denser housing you can have. Drivers don't pay for roads. They get subsidised by everyone else paying property taxes. The money out of the fuel taxes is insufficient to cover the costs that cars cause.

iso1631 4y ago
Why don't road users pay for the land the roads are on? Beyond construction and maintenence. If 1 square foot of land costs $600 (manhattan), and with say an opportunity cost of 2%, that's $12 a year per square foot. A 13' lane would thus cost $156 per foot, or $800k per lane-mile. Assuming an average 4 lanes per street/avenue (including parking) that would be the best part of $2bn a year for roads in Manhattan alone.