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Was your DS 21 pre- or post-1968? Basically, did it have the red or the green fluid? I once drove mine from Denmark to Provence and back again, it was an expe

by Svip 4y ago

Was your DS 21 pre- or post-1968? Basically, did it have the red or the green fluid? I once drove mine from Denmark to Provence and back again, it was an experience, and not without problems (it started to leak around Paris). I am not sure I would make that big of a trip in it again (although, some part of me hopes I will). Since those days, I've mostly made the big trips in my '98 Xantia.

jacquesm 4y ago
Green. It was one of the latest made (1974). I've done plenty of really long trips with it (many thousands of km), but I did replace all of the accessible high pressure LHM tubing at some point to get rid of the periodical 'Arret!' light on the dash because the system lost pressure. I can also tell you from experience that trying to drive a DS without pressure is both an art and a body building exercise at once. Xantia is a great compromise between 'modern' and 'old fashioned', a bit plasticy but the one I had I drove into the ground over many 100's of thousands of km. The final nail in that particular coffin was to lose the headgasket somewhere between Munich and NL and just continuing the trip, it even got decent fuel economy but it wouldn't start up after being shut down and once we looked into the engine it was declared a miracle that it made it all the way back. Great car, all around and given the distances covered ultra reliable. The real problem in the DS model is the semi-automatic gearbox which is super finicky regarding hydraulics levels (you'll notice a ticking sound when it is trying to engage and can't quite make it due to a lack of fluid, you can temporarily fix that under the hood by forcibly actuating it but driving it like that is really not recommended. Nor is driving it when one of your drive shafts breaks and you block up that side of the drive train. Nice low engine revs though, we jokingly called it 'economy mode'. I also had an ID-19, a simpler but altogether far more robust car.
- jet_32951 4y ago
  That sound from the Citromatic used to be called 'boinking' and it is inescapable unless the fluids and seals are up to snuff. Citroën hydraulics are detailed but not that complex, patience + Viton aftermarket seals (green fluid = hexylene glycol) are your friends. Agreed that the ID (idée)-19 had a lot of advantages from its simplicity.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > Citroën hydraulics are detailed but not that complex Have a look behind the left hand front wheel cover panel and say that again :) There has to be at least 50 meters worth of high pressure line behind there and a functional analog computer using hydraulics. That's what keeps the car balanced front/back and left/right. The height adjusters just do the static balancing for load, that thing on the left front does it dynamically with a response time in the 10's of milliseconds and keeps continuous track of what 'level' means to the car occupants. It is a very impressive piece of engineering which has some components that will leave you completely puzzled (a tube with a few hundred metal plates in it with a tiny hole through the middle, for instance) if you don't know what they are for.
- Svip 4y ago
  My mechanic also tells me I'm fortunate that my DS is a five speed manual. No semi-automatic gearbox for me. Also makes the engine bay a lot more accessible (although it is injection). So far, I've replaced the headgasket, cylinders, water pump and injection distributor (with one that achieves lower revs in neutral). The engine repairs were substantial, since water had leaked into one of the cylinders, but it was possible, and now it just starts when I turn the key. My Xantia is the Activa V6 model. That ES9 engine is a beast. I've been told that it's usually the car, not the engine, that breaks first with those ones. But really, what I was more interested in was the Activa suspension. It feels like driving a go-kart, yet with the suspension of a Bentley, and the practicality of a hatchback. I know they were trying the same sort of anti-body roll for the DS back in the 1960s, but money was always running out (unfortunately, I cannot seem to find the pictures, I know they exist online somewhere). I intend to keep my Xantia around for a long time. Took it to the US once, and drove from coast to coast and back again.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Activa V6 is amazing, those are super rare to begin with and I've only driven one once. Cornering in that thing is the weirdest experience initially and afterwards every other car except for high end sports cars feel 'off'. DS with a five speed manual is the best combo, keep an eye on your steering housing (those tend to go slowly but failure is potentially catastrophic) and front carrier arms, the bushings will wear out and then you'll start to eat tires. Other than that, your main enemy is chassis rust, everything else can be fixed.
    - Svip 4y ago
      My understanding is that only 2700 Activa V6 were ever built. I doubt half of those have survived. Now and then, one will appear for sale, and they disappear about as quickly as they appear. I remember rushing across country to pick up mine as soon as it went on sale. I've recently bought a house with room for a workshop. I've known for a while that the steering on the DS was an issue that needed fixing. Now that I will finally have room to work on it, I look forward to start fixing this among other issues. Including fixing the wiring for the thermostat to the dashboard.

by Svip 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

Green. It was one of the latest made (1974). I've done plenty of really long trips with it (many thousands of km), but I did replace all of the accessible high pressure LHM tubing at some point to get rid of the periodical 'Arret!' light on the dash because the system lost pressure. I can also tell you from experience that trying to drive a DS without pressure is both an art and a body building exercise at once. Xantia is a great compromise between 'modern' and 'old fashioned', a bit plasticy but the one I had I drove into the ground over many 100's of thousands of km. The final nail in that particular coffin was to lose the headgasket somewhere between Munich and NL and just continuing the trip, it even got decent fuel economy but it wouldn't start up after being shut down and once we looked into the engine it was declared a miracle that it made it all the way back. Great car, all around and given the distances covered ultra reliable. The real problem in the DS model is the semi-automatic gearbox which is super finicky regarding hydraulics levels (you'll notice a ticking sound when it is trying to engage and can't quite make it due to a lack of fluid, you can temporarily fix that under the hood by forcibly actuating it but driving it like that is really not recommended. Nor is driving it when one of your drive shafts breaks and you block up that side of the drive train. Nice low engine revs though, we jokingly called it 'economy mode'. I also had an ID-19, a simpler but altogether far more robust car.

jet_32951 4y ago
That sound from the Citromatic used to be called 'boinking' and it is inescapable unless the fluids and seals are up to snuff. Citroën hydraulics are detailed but not that complex, patience + Viton aftermarket seals (green fluid = hexylene glycol) are your friends. Agreed that the ID (idée)-19 had a lot of advantages from its simplicity.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > Citroën hydraulics are detailed but not that complex Have a look behind the left hand front wheel cover panel and say that again :) There has to be at least 50 meters worth of high pressure line behind there and a functional analog computer using hydraulics. That's what keeps the car balanced front/back and left/right. The height adjusters just do the static balancing for load, that thing on the left front does it dynamically with a response time in the 10's of milliseconds and keeps continuous track of what 'level' means to the car occupants. It is a very impressive piece of engineering which has some components that will leave you completely puzzled (a tube with a few hundred metal plates in it with a tiny hole through the middle, for instance) if you don't know what they are for.
Svip 4y ago
My mechanic also tells me I'm fortunate that my DS is a five speed manual. No semi-automatic gearbox for me. Also makes the engine bay a lot more accessible (although it is injection). So far, I've replaced the headgasket, cylinders, water pump and injection distributor (with one that achieves lower revs in neutral). The engine repairs were substantial, since water had leaked into one of the cylinders, but it was possible, and now it just starts when I turn the key. My Xantia is the Activa V6 model. That ES9 engine is a beast. I've been told that it's usually the car, not the engine, that breaks first with those ones. But really, what I was more interested in was the Activa suspension. It feels like driving a go-kart, yet with the suspension of a Bentley, and the practicality of a hatchback. I know they were trying the same sort of anti-body roll for the DS back in the 1960s, but money was always running out (unfortunately, I cannot seem to find the pictures, I know they exist online somewhere). I intend to keep my Xantia around for a long time. Took it to the US once, and drove from coast to coast and back again.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Activa V6 is amazing, those are super rare to begin with and I've only driven one once. Cornering in that thing is the weirdest experience initially and afterwards every other car except for high end sports cars feel 'off'. DS with a five speed manual is the best combo, keep an eye on your steering housing (those tend to go slowly but failure is potentially catastrophic) and front carrier arms, the bushings will wear out and then you'll start to eat tires. Other than that, your main enemy is chassis rust, everything else can be fixed.
  - Svip 4y ago
    My understanding is that only 2700 Activa V6 were ever built. I doubt half of those have survived. Now and then, one will appear for sale, and they disappear about as quickly as they appear. I remember rushing across country to pick up mine as soon as it went on sale. I've recently bought a house with room for a workshop. I've known for a while that the steering on the DS was an issue that needed fixing. Now that I will finally have room to work on it, I look forward to start fixing this among other issues. Including fixing the wiring for the thermostat to the dashboard.