8 ms·

> For New York metro residents who take public transportation, a door-to-door commute averages about 51 minutes. That’s much longer than the 29 minutes typicall

by bonyt 4y ago

> For New York metro residents who take public transportation, a door-to-door commute averages about 51 minutes. That’s much longer than the 29 minutes typically spent by those who drive alone. I mean, is this really an apples to apples comparison that is at all meaningful? The NY metro area includes NYC with its subway, but also suburbs in long island, New Jersey, and Connecticut with long commuter rail trips where you go to a different city, and short car commutes where you don’t.

donohoe 4y ago
This. I came here to say this. When you bundle NYC (which is one of the largest systems in itself between subway and bus) that represents a skewed average. As a NYC resident of 20 years I can assure you public transportation much much faster than a car in most cases. Don't even get me started about the time it takes to find parking in this city... I am guessing that that time consideration is not in this study.
- parkingrift 4y ago
  >As a NYC resident of 20 years I can assure you public transportation much much faster than a car in most cases. Surely you jest. Even in Manhattan this is rarely true. Outside of Manhattan it is practically never true. In some circumstances in Manhattan the subway can indeed be faster, but it’s really only true for traveling north/south along an express line during peak traffic. For instance I can get from 96th to Chambers in about 25 minutes on a subway if I’m lucky with my timing. That’s faster than a car during peak traffic, but slower than a car during any other time of day. But if I need to get from 96th to basically anywhere else that isn’t on the 1/2/3 there is no way the subway will ever win, much less by any significant margin. Even the idea that subway is “much much faster” defies basic logic. If that were universally true few people would ever take a ride share or taxi. And this ignores the almost comical problems and lack of reliability with the subway system in NYC. I cannot count the number of times I’ve had to give up, exit the subway station, and hail a cab. I imagine for many people it’s happened one too many times and they’ve exclusively switched to rideshare/taxi. For me personally I’ve switched to electric bike. I gave up on the subway earlier this year after one too many negative encounters with vagrants and criminals. A good question to ask is how visitors feel about the NYC subway system. When friends or family come to visit, what do they think about it? I don’t know about you, but for me it’s a healthy combo of amazement at the scale of the system, and amazement at how atrocious and disgusting it’s become.
  - jagger27 4y ago
    As an outsider of New York it’s pretty bleak to compare the shininess and opulence of all the new billionaire’s row towers to the decay and grime of the subway. It doesn’t have to be like this.
    - etc-hosts 4y ago
      It's because the state of New York controls funding for the NYC subway, instead of the city of NYC.
  - thecompilr 4y ago
    I travel from JC, and I can get to almost any point in Manhattan faster by PATH+subway/walking than by car+parking.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    This doesn’t comport with my experience on the UWS: the subway was almost always faster for me, rush or not. The only exceptions were cross-town and way out on the 7, e.g. Flushing. My commute from Harlem (when I lived there) to the financial district was 25 minutes by train; a similar car commute would have been around 40 (and I would have needed to find parking). People take ride shares and taxis because of separate pressures, including very reasonable ones like needing to haul something bulky to a specific address or trying to get to their airport (I will freely acknowledge that the subway connections to LGA and JFK are pitiful).
    - guardiangod 4y ago
      That's because you live in UWS (that's where I live too). I used to live in Jamaica and trying to get anywhere that's not Manhattan is a chore. For example going to Flushing would take twice as long because you have to get close to Manhatten before you can switch from F line to 7. Bus in this case works fine most of the time though. But you still need to walk to a bus station.
      - woodruffw 4y ago
- btrettel 4y ago
  > Don't even get me started about the time it takes to find parking in this city... I am guessing that that time consideration is not in this study. For a while when I lived in Austin, cycling to work from where I lived would be comparable to driving in terms of time. That's despite the fact that I was only going roughly 15 mph when in motion. I'd often catch up to drivers at stop lights, and I could park directly in front of my building. No time spent finding parking and walking to the building. Some drivers are quite arrogant about the advantages of driving and are quick to dismiss the time spent parking, but time spent parking is a significant factor in many places.
  - duncan-donuts 4y ago
    I’ve had a similar experience in Minneapolis. Biking to work was the fastest way to go for me. An additional factor was very little walking once I got there. With the bus or driving I may need to walk several blocks to get to my office and if I bike I can lock up at the building. The actual time door to door wasn’t much different for all three modes but biking was the simplest and as a result fastest.
  - briandear 4y ago
    And being covered in sweat in a 100 degree day? Cars have air conditioning.
    - btrettel 4y ago
      I regularly rode when it was over 100 degrees. It honestly was not a problem. I know a lot of drivers find this hard to believe, but it's true. - Being in good shape reduced how much I sweat in the first place. If an average driver started cycling, they'd see a reduction in how much they sweat from getting in better shape alone. - I would wear lightweight clothes for my commute and change when I got to work. - On hotter days, I would wet down my shirt and a stocking I wore on my head. That water would evaporate, making sweating unnecessary. If the water evaporated prematurely, I found that a small spray bottle would work great to add back water and avoid sweating. (If it's too humid, this won't work, obviously, but I didn't find the humidity in Austin to be a problem.) - Don't ride too fast. - My ride wasn't longer than 15 minutes. Obviously, the longer the ride, the more sweat. I found that even on 100+ degree days, I would only slightly sweat given the other things I did. - If I did sweat, I'd wipe the sweat off with a bandana or rag and then splash water on myself to freshen up. If you do splash water on yourself, dry yourself off before going to see coworkers as some assumed that I was sweating profusely when I wasn't. - A bike commute naturally places going to work at a cooler part of the day, the morning. I don't care if I'm sweaty when I get back home. - Also, getting a little sweaty isn't that bad. A lot of people seem to think that sweating automatically makes you smell terrible. But that hasn't been my experience. Yes, getting extremely sweaty can smell terrible and feel grimy too, but mild sweat is pretty normal and happens to people who are walking outside for a few minutes when it's hot.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  I've never lived in NYC, but I've both driven and taken subways there. Not real recently, though, so this could be out of date. On "finding parking": it's all a question of $$$. If you're willing to pay through the nose for a commercial lot, it's reasonably quick. If you insist on cheap parking... well, you'll be hunting for a while.
panarky 4y ago
Also, the average bicycle trip is shorter than the average airplane trip, therefore bikes are faster than airplanes.
- conanbatt 4y ago
  Certainly faster to bike to many places than taking a plane there
- rob74 4y ago
  Well no, but you could definitely spin that into the headline "Flying takes almost ten times as long as riding a bicycle"...
tootie 4y ago
It takes me at least 29 minutes to park in NYC. Taking a taxi is usually faster but it depends on the route.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
Also does this include trying to find a parking space?
rst 4y ago
See also, from the article: "Commuter rail passengers spend an average of 69 minutes traveling to work, far longer than those taking bus or light rail." Gee, could that be because they're traveling longer? (It's certainly not because commuter rail trains travel slower than a typical New York City bus!)
- ItsMonkk 4y ago
  This is also a natural result of how much more pleasant taking rail is compared to driving. Sort of a induced demand and Jevon's paradox effect going on here. Since you don't need to actively pay attention to the road you can multi-task, and that means that you can buy a house farther away. If there is no way to commute by rail, the house that you will select will need to be closer to your work, and will therefore likely be more expensive.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
As someone who used nyc transit for years you could often walk faster given the number of delays and issues. Driving is definitely faster throughout the city unless things are gridlocked. Parking is the problem. I moved to seattle for work but also to escape the hell of logistics in nyc. To go anywhere outside immediate walking distance was a 40+ minute affair each way, making things like dropping down to buy a pair of pants a half day affair. On the way you’ll probably get to see someone assaulted on the subway, an insane person squeezing feces down their pant legs onto the floor (true story!), or any number of other mildly traumatic experiences folks from outside nyc never fully believe or understand. But the transit system is also the beating heart of the city. I wish every city had their transit system.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  I wish every city had a better transit system, because it's clear we can do much better than NYC transit.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  I’m sorry that you had to see those things, but the idea that the average person will “probably” see them is a persistent myth. I’ve lived here my entire life, the entire time riding subways and buses for school and work, and I’ve never once seen an assault or someone defecate themselves. I have seen lots of homeless people, most of whom were sleeping or minding their own business, and I have seen people urinate in subway stations (but not since I moved to Brooklyn). But both are a far cry from the mental image of general mishegaas that assaults and defecation projects.
redandblack 4y ago
Long time NJ to Midtown commuter - 1 hr 50 mins each way for almost 18 years. Now, with hybrid and office barely 20 mins away - my stress level has dropped off so much
- coffee_beqn 4y ago
  Impressive. I could only do a 2 hour commute for a few months before moving. And this was mainly by rail which was quite empty in the evening
crazylogger 4y ago
Or it could simply be that users of public transport tend to be poorer, and therefore live farther from work for lower rent.
dominotw 4y ago
Taking public transit/CTA in chicago has become unbearable. Trains don't follow any schedules, they keep announcing on overhead speakers that next train is not coming because of covid related labor shortages. My 15 min train ride has taken me anywhere between 15mins - 2 hrs in past 2 months. So i have to plan to be somewhere 1 hr in advance of my appointment so i don't miss it due to 'covid related labor shortages'. I suspect most of the commenters here that come out in support of public transit everytime don't actually use public transit. They are wfhers in suburbs who like the idea of compact cities packed to the brim, where cars are banned, take public tansit or better yet bike through blistering cold with kids in tow.
- teddyh 4y ago
  > I suspect most of the commenters here that come out in support of public transit everytime don't actually use public transit. Or, a bit more charitably, maybe they live where public transport actually mostly works. I.e. not in the US (by all accounts).

by bonyt 4y ago

donohoe 4y ago

This. I came here to say this. When you bundle NYC (which is one of the largest systems in itself between subway and bus) that represents a skewed average. As a NYC resident of 20 years I can assure you public transportation much much faster than a car in most cases. Don't even get me started about the time it takes to find parking in this city... I am guessing that that time consideration is not in this study.

parkingrift 4y ago
>As a NYC resident of 20 years I can assure you public transportation much much faster than a car in most cases. Surely you jest. Even in Manhattan this is rarely true. Outside of Manhattan it is practically never true. In some circumstances in Manhattan the subway can indeed be faster, but it’s really only true for traveling north/south along an express line during peak traffic. For instance I can get from 96th to Chambers in about 25 minutes on a subway if I’m lucky with my timing. That’s faster than a car during peak traffic, but slower than a car during any other time of day. But if I need to get from 96th to basically anywhere else that isn’t on the 1/2/3 there is no way the subway will ever win, much less by any significant margin. Even the idea that subway is “much much faster” defies basic logic. If that were universally true few people would ever take a ride share or taxi. And this ignores the almost comical problems and lack of reliability with the subway system in NYC. I cannot count the number of times I’ve had to give up, exit the subway station, and hail a cab. I imagine for many people it’s happened one too many times and they’ve exclusively switched to rideshare/taxi. For me personally I’ve switched to electric bike. I gave up on the subway earlier this year after one too many negative encounters with vagrants and criminals. A good question to ask is how visitors feel about the NYC subway system. When friends or family come to visit, what do they think about it? I don’t know about you, but for me it’s a healthy combo of amazement at the scale of the system, and amazement at how atrocious and disgusting it’s become.
- jagger27 4y ago
  As an outsider of New York it’s pretty bleak to compare the shininess and opulence of all the new billionaire’s row towers to the decay and grime of the subway. It doesn’t have to be like this.
  - etc-hosts 4y ago
    It's because the state of New York controls funding for the NYC subway, instead of the city of NYC.
- thecompilr 4y ago
  I travel from JC, and I can get to almost any point in Manhattan faster by PATH+subway/walking than by car+parking.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  This doesn’t comport with my experience on the UWS: the subway was almost always faster for me, rush or not. The only exceptions were cross-town and way out on the 7, e.g. Flushing. My commute from Harlem (when I lived there) to the financial district was 25 minutes by train; a similar car commute would have been around 40 (and I would have needed to find parking). People take ride shares and taxis because of separate pressures, including very reasonable ones like needing to haul something bulky to a specific address or trying to get to their airport (I will freely acknowledge that the subway connections to LGA and JFK are pitiful).
  - guardiangod 4y ago
    That's because you live in UWS (that's where I live too). I used to live in Jamaica and trying to get anywhere that's not Manhattan is a chore. For example going to Flushing would take twice as long because you have to get close to Manhatten before you can switch from F line to 7. Bus in this case works fine most of the time though. But you still need to walk to a bus station.
    - woodruffw 4y ago
btrettel 4y ago
> Don't even get me started about the time it takes to find parking in this city... I am guessing that that time consideration is not in this study. For a while when I lived in Austin, cycling to work from where I lived would be comparable to driving in terms of time. That's despite the fact that I was only going roughly 15 mph when in motion. I'd often catch up to drivers at stop lights, and I could park directly in front of my building. No time spent finding parking and walking to the building. Some drivers are quite arrogant about the advantages of driving and are quick to dismiss the time spent parking, but time spent parking is a significant factor in many places.
- duncan-donuts 4y ago
  I’ve had a similar experience in Minneapolis. Biking to work was the fastest way to go for me. An additional factor was very little walking once I got there. With the bus or driving I may need to walk several blocks to get to my office and if I bike I can lock up at the building. The actual time door to door wasn’t much different for all three modes but biking was the simplest and as a result fastest.
- briandear 4y ago
  And being covered in sweat in a 100 degree day? Cars have air conditioning.
  - btrettel 4y ago
    I regularly rode when it was over 100 degrees. It honestly was not a problem. I know a lot of drivers find this hard to believe, but it's true. - Being in good shape reduced how much I sweat in the first place. If an average driver started cycling, they'd see a reduction in how much they sweat from getting in better shape alone. - I would wear lightweight clothes for my commute and change when I got to work. - On hotter days, I would wet down my shirt and a stocking I wore on my head. That water would evaporate, making sweating unnecessary. If the water evaporated prematurely, I found that a small spray bottle would work great to add back water and avoid sweating. (If it's too humid, this won't work, obviously, but I didn't find the humidity in Austin to be a problem.) - Don't ride too fast. - My ride wasn't longer than 15 minutes. Obviously, the longer the ride, the more sweat. I found that even on 100+ degree days, I would only slightly sweat given the other things I did. - If I did sweat, I'd wipe the sweat off with a bandana or rag and then splash water on myself to freshen up. If you do splash water on yourself, dry yourself off before going to see coworkers as some assumed that I was sweating profusely when I wasn't. - A bike commute naturally places going to work at a cooler part of the day, the morning. I don't care if I'm sweaty when I get back home. - Also, getting a little sweaty isn't that bad. A lot of people seem to think that sweating automatically makes you smell terrible. But that hasn't been my experience. Yes, getting extremely sweaty can smell terrible and feel grimy too, but mild sweat is pretty normal and happens to people who are walking outside for a few minutes when it's hot.
UIUC_06 4y ago
I've never lived in NYC, but I've both driven and taken subways there. Not real recently, though, so this could be out of date. On "finding parking": it's all a question of $$$. If you're willing to pay through the nose for a commercial lot, it's reasonably quick. If you insist on cheap parking... well, you'll be hunting for a while.

panarky 4y ago

Also, the average bicycle trip is shorter than the average airplane trip, therefore bikes are faster than airplanes.

conanbatt 4y ago
Certainly faster to bike to many places than taking a plane there
rob74 4y ago
Well no, but you could definitely spin that into the headline "Flying takes almost ten times as long as riding a bicycle"...

tootie 4y ago

It takes me at least 29 minutes to park in NYC. Taking a taxi is usually faster but it depends on the route.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

Also does this include trying to find a parking space?

rst 4y ago

See also, from the article: "Commuter rail passengers spend an average of 69 minutes traveling to work, far longer than those taking bus or light rail." Gee, could that be because they're traveling longer? (It's certainly not because commuter rail trains travel slower than a typical New York City bus!)

ItsMonkk 4y ago
This is also a natural result of how much more pleasant taking rail is compared to driving. Sort of a induced demand and Jevon's paradox effect going on here. Since you don't need to actively pay attention to the road you can multi-task, and that means that you can buy a house farther away. If there is no way to commute by rail, the house that you will select will need to be closer to your work, and will therefore likely be more expensive.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

As someone who used nyc transit for years you could often walk faster given the number of delays and issues. Driving is definitely faster throughout the city unless things are gridlocked. Parking is the problem. I moved to seattle for work but also to escape the hell of logistics in nyc. To go anywhere outside immediate walking distance was a 40+ minute affair each way, making things like dropping down to buy a pair of pants a half day affair. On the way you’ll probably get to see someone assaulted on the subway, an insane person squeezing feces down their pant legs onto the floor (true story!), or any number of other mildly traumatic experiences folks from outside nyc never fully believe or understand. But the transit system is also the beating heart of the city. I wish every city had their transit system.

sudosysgen 4y ago
I wish every city had a better transit system, because it's clear we can do much better than NYC transit.
woodruffw 4y ago
I’m sorry that you had to see those things, but the idea that the average person will “probably” see them is a persistent myth. I’ve lived here my entire life, the entire time riding subways and buses for school and work, and I’ve never once seen an assault or someone defecate themselves. I have seen lots of homeless people, most of whom were sleeping or minding their own business, and I have seen people urinate in subway stations (but not since I moved to Brooklyn). But both are a far cry from the mental image of general mishegaas that assaults and defecation projects.

redandblack 4y ago

Long time NJ to Midtown commuter - 1 hr 50 mins each way for almost 18 years. Now, with hybrid and office barely 20 mins away - my stress level has dropped off so much

coffee_beqn 4y ago
Impressive. I could only do a 2 hour commute for a few months before moving. And this was mainly by rail which was quite empty in the evening

crazylogger 4y ago

Or it could simply be that users of public transport tend to be poorer, and therefore live farther from work for lower rent.

dominotw 4y ago

Taking public transit/CTA in chicago has become unbearable. Trains don't follow any schedules, they keep announcing on overhead speakers that next train is not coming because of covid related labor shortages. My 15 min train ride has taken me anywhere between 15mins - 2 hrs in past 2 months. So i have to plan to be somewhere 1 hr in advance of my appointment so i don't miss it due to 'covid related labor shortages'. I suspect most of the commenters here that come out in support of public transit everytime don't actually use public transit. They are wfhers in suburbs who like the idea of compact cities packed to the brim, where cars are banned, take public tansit or better yet bike through blistering cold with kids in tow.

teddyh 4y ago
> I suspect most of the commenters here that come out in support of public transit everytime don't actually use public transit. Or, a bit more charitably, maybe they live where public transport actually mostly works. I.e. not in the US (by all accounts).