5 ms·

New Clojure Project Quickstart

126 points by yogthos 4y ago

scotty79 4y ago
neil lein babashka uberjar clojure clj nrepl scratch.clj bb.edn Bit of a mess.
- jiyinyiyong 4y ago
  while it's a sign that Clojure ecosystem is evolving, I won't like an ending being like this.
threatofrain 4y ago
Is there a de facto NextJS of Clojure/script?
- CraigJPerry 4y ago
  I’m really not qualified to comment but someone else will be able to keep me honest here. Fulcro maybe? https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ It’s a bit more than NextJS though. I’ve never used it but there’s some clever ideas in data management in there. There’s luminus too but that’s again more than Nextjs, i’d compare it to something like blitz in nextjs world. The folks that created luminus are working on something new too. There’s reframe which is less than nextjs but is so refreshingly simple to write in. The domino model is so easy to grok and work with in my limited experience.
  - yayitswei 4y ago
    I can vouch for Fulcro. We're using it at my startup and it's been great so far, from standing up a prototype quickly to now a 1-year-old codebase with many paying customers. The data management stuff is pretty novel and comes with a learning curve, but is worth it in my opinion. As an enterprise app, we've been able to turn around features in days if not hours. Happy to answer any questions.
eduction 4y ago
The context (per my limited understanding) is that Leiningen, the older and still quite popular way of scaffolding and packaging Clojure projects, is easy to use but not simple; if you want it to do something a little different, it’s tricky because various tasks are complected together (I remember hearing this was due to its heavier reliance on Maven?). Meanwhile the newer and officially more blessed way of making projects, deps.edn, is simple but not easy; to do basic things you need to assemble the pieces yourself, but if you want to make your own custom build pipeline it’s probably more intuitive than Leiningen. borkdude’s new project seems to be trying to bridge the gap by providing some pre-canned equivalents of popular Leiningen commands, but built on top of deps.edn. Instead of lein this is neil. (I only use lein myself at the moment but curious about deps.edn)
- user3939382 4y ago
  Nice use of complected. Rich, is that you?
  - LesZedCB 4y ago
    I think it has snuck into the diction of many of us who've seen his talks
- brundolf 4y ago
  When I briefly played with Clojure a few years ago, I was surprised and disappointed that there was no official toolchain (just the informally-agreed-upon leiningen, which it sounds like they're moving away from now?). It was bewildering and a turn-off for me as a new dev, and very surprising given how cohesive and practical the language and standard lib themselves are Easy or simple- I could see arguments for either. But I can't understand why they'd just punt on something so important in this day and age
  - casion 4y ago
    tools.deps, which is mentioned above, is the official solution. It's been around for more than a few years.
leobg 4y ago
I found setting up Leiningen and the JVM and deps.edn so difficult and confusing on my old Mac that I gave up on learning Clojure because of it.
- slotrans 4y ago
  You can also just... $ clojure some_code_you_wrote.clj It's a shame that this is either missing or well-hidden in the official docs, common intro guides, etc. It's not how you make a "real" application or whatever, but if you're just trying to play with it, this way works great. I hate having to make a "project" just to even Hello World. I much prefer the bash/Python/Groovy/etc approach of "drop some code in a file and run it".
  - LesZedCB 4y ago
    you can even just shebang it. if the startup time sucks too much, babashka has you covered! just s/clojure/bb.
- JoshCole 4y ago
  This might be less painful. brew install openjdk brew install leiningen lein new project cd project lein run Ditto for the linked article.
  - cutler 4y ago
    Except you now need an extra JVM instance just for Leiningen.
    - deleted 4y ago
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    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - JoshCole 4y ago
      > Programmers waste enormous amounts of time thinking about, or worrying about, the speed of noncritical parts of their programs, and these attempts at efficiency actually have a strong negative impact when debugging and maintenance are considered. We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%. - Donald Knuth This small inefficiency is not something worth creating complications over. The thing about baby steps is that when you use that sort of language you're already making things sound easier than they are. The first baby step is the hardest step to take. It takes months of work and many falls. My hope is that they manage to write (+ 2 2) or something similar; I'm not trying to make learning the language hard.
krn 4y ago
How does this compare with https://github.com/practicalli/clojure-deps-edn https://github.com/practicalli/clojure-deps-edn ?
- didibus 4y ago
  Basically, tools.deps is configured through a deps.edn config file. clojure-deps-edn is just a pre-configured deps.edn file to get you started. `neil` is a command line that lets you edit your deps.edn using commands, instead of manually having to edit the config file by hand in an editor for example.
jcpst 4y ago
I’ve written tiny little apps in clojure and really enjoyed it. But I did find getting started to be a bit tricky. Cool to see stuff like this tool. I think one of the best getting started tools I’ve seen lately is Calva for VS Code.
christophilus 4y ago
This looks great. I was just getting back into Clojure with some spare time while on my beach vacation, and I have to say... Lein was much more n00b friendly than deps.edn. Neil looks like just the thing I wanted. Also, Borkdude is a beast. He's the Shakespeare of Clojure in that five hundred years from now it will be common knowledge that "of course, he was actually a team of people". Or possibly the common knowledge will be "he was the first sentient AI". I'm not sure.
- user5678 4y ago
- barrenko 4y ago
  A lot of the Clojure community seems to be like that. And the biggest beast of them all, aphyr.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Every week there's a new clojure thing, it's "them" 80% of the time.
jamesfinlayson 4y ago
I've never used Clojure but it's a JVM language so does Gradle work? I know Scala has its own tool but from the little I've played with Scala, Gradle seems to work just fine (though Scala tests didn't work with Scala 3 through Gradle last time I checked - might be fixed now).
- user5678 4y ago
- didibus 4y ago
  Yes Gradle works, same for Ant and Maven as well. Some people use those as well, you can find some set of tasks for each that add a bit more Clojure-awareness to them as well such as https://github.com/clojurephant/clojurephant https://github.com/clojurephant/clojurephant for Gradle. That said, tools.deps did add a feature which renders some projects who are built with tools.deps and use that feature no longer work with just Gradle/Ant/Maven/Lein/etc. tools.deps allows you to depend on git repos directly, so if a library is published in that style, it can only be consumed with tools.deps (which is the now official dependency manager)

126 points by yogthos 4y ago

scotty79 4y ago

neil lein babashka uberjar clojure clj nrepl scratch.clj bb.edn Bit of a mess.

jiyinyiyong 4y ago
while it's a sign that Clojure ecosystem is evolving, I won't like an ending being like this.

threatofrain 4y ago

Is there a de facto NextJS of Clojure/script?

CraigJPerry 4y ago
I’m really not qualified to comment but someone else will be able to keep me honest here. Fulcro maybe? https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ https://fulcro.fulcrologic.com/ It’s a bit more than NextJS though. I’ve never used it but there’s some clever ideas in data management in there. There’s luminus too but that’s again more than Nextjs, i’d compare it to something like blitz in nextjs world. The folks that created luminus are working on something new too. There’s reframe which is less than nextjs but is so refreshingly simple to write in. The domino model is so easy to grok and work with in my limited experience.
- yayitswei 4y ago
  I can vouch for Fulcro. We're using it at my startup and it's been great so far, from standing up a prototype quickly to now a 1-year-old codebase with many paying customers. The data management stuff is pretty novel and comes with a learning curve, but is worth it in my opinion. As an enterprise app, we've been able to turn around features in days if not hours. Happy to answer any questions.

eduction 4y ago

The context (per my limited understanding) is that Leiningen, the older and still quite popular way of scaffolding and packaging Clojure projects, is easy to use but not simple; if you want it to do something a little different, it’s tricky because various tasks are complected together (I remember hearing this was due to its heavier reliance on Maven?). Meanwhile the newer and officially more blessed way of making projects, deps.edn, is simple but not easy; to do basic things you need to assemble the pieces yourself, but if you want to make your own custom build pipeline it’s probably more intuitive than Leiningen. borkdude’s new project seems to be trying to bridge the gap by providing some pre-canned equivalents of popular Leiningen commands, but built on top of deps.edn. Instead of lein this is neil. (I only use lein myself at the moment but curious about deps.edn)

user3939382 4y ago
Nice use of complected. Rich, is that you?
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  I think it has snuck into the diction of many of us who've seen his talks
brundolf 4y ago
When I briefly played with Clojure a few years ago, I was surprised and disappointed that there was no official toolchain (just the informally-agreed-upon leiningen, which it sounds like they're moving away from now?). It was bewildering and a turn-off for me as a new dev, and very surprising given how cohesive and practical the language and standard lib themselves are Easy or simple- I could see arguments for either. But I can't understand why they'd just punt on something so important in this day and age
- casion 4y ago
  tools.deps, which is mentioned above, is the official solution. It's been around for more than a few years.

leobg 4y ago

I found setting up Leiningen and the JVM and deps.edn so difficult and confusing on my old Mac that I gave up on learning Clojure because of it.

slotrans 4y ago
You can also just... $ clojure some_code_you_wrote.clj It's a shame that this is either missing or well-hidden in the official docs, common intro guides, etc. It's not how you make a "real" application or whatever, but if you're just trying to play with it, this way works great. I hate having to make a "project" just to even Hello World. I much prefer the bash/Python/Groovy/etc approach of "drop some code in a file and run it".
- LesZedCB 4y ago
  you can even just shebang it. if the startup time sucks too much, babashka has you covered! just s/clojure/bb.
JoshCole 4y ago
This might be less painful. brew install openjdk brew install leiningen lein new project cd project lein run Ditto for the linked article.
- cutler 4y ago
  Except you now need an extra JVM instance just for Leiningen.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - JoshCole 4y ago
    > Programmers waste enormous amounts of time thinking about, or worrying about, the speed of noncritical parts of their programs, and these attempts at efficiency actually have a strong negative impact when debugging and maintenance are considered. We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%. - Donald Knuth This small inefficiency is not something worth creating complications over. The thing about baby steps is that when you use that sort of language you're already making things sound easier than they are. The first baby step is the hardest step to take. It takes months of work and many falls. My hope is that they manage to write (+ 2 2) or something similar; I'm not trying to make learning the language hard.

krn 4y ago

How does this compare with https://github.com/practicalli/clojure-deps-edn https://github.com/practicalli/clojure-deps-edn ?

didibus 4y ago
Basically, tools.deps is configured through a deps.edn config file. clojure-deps-edn is just a pre-configured deps.edn file to get you started. `neil` is a command line that lets you edit your deps.edn using commands, instead of manually having to edit the config file by hand in an editor for example.

jcpst 4y ago

I’ve written tiny little apps in clojure and really enjoyed it. But I did find getting started to be a bit tricky. Cool to see stuff like this tool. I think one of the best getting started tools I’ve seen lately is Calva for VS Code.

christophilus 4y ago

This looks great. I was just getting back into Clojure with some spare time while on my beach vacation, and I have to say... Lein was much more n00b friendly than deps.edn. Neil looks like just the thing I wanted. Also, Borkdude is a beast. He's the Shakespeare of Clojure in that five hundred years from now it will be common knowledge that "of course, he was actually a team of people". Or possibly the common knowledge will be "he was the first sentient AI". I'm not sure.

user5678 4y ago
barrenko 4y ago
A lot of the Clojure community seems to be like that. And the biggest beast of them all, aphyr.
agumonkey 4y ago
Every week there's a new clojure thing, it's "them" 80% of the time.

jamesfinlayson 4y ago

I've never used Clojure but it's a JVM language so does Gradle work? I know Scala has its own tool but from the little I've played with Scala, Gradle seems to work just fine (though Scala tests didn't work with Scala 3 through Gradle last time I checked - might be fixed now).

user5678 4y ago
didibus 4y ago
Yes Gradle works, same for Ant and Maven as well. Some people use those as well, you can find some set of tasks for each that add a bit more Clojure-awareness to them as well such as https://github.com/clojurephant/clojurephant https://github.com/clojurephant/clojurephant for Gradle. That said, tools.deps did add a feature which renders some projects who are built with tools.deps and use that feature no longer work with just Gradle/Ant/Maven/Lein/etc. tools.deps allows you to depend on git repos directly, so if a library is published in that style, it can only be consumed with tools.deps (which is the now official dependency manager)