6 ms·

Interesting to read some of the hype around 0xide, it seems like its just some software ontop of a blade system?

by nikau 4y ago

jgalt212 4y ago
Perhaps, but if their secret sauce produces a much better product, I'm not terribly concerned that the value-add is a software-based and not hardware-based.
- nikau 4y ago
  Yeah I'm not arguing for or against their product, just genuinely curious to know what differentiates them from existing blade servers hosting kubernetes or something.
  - steveklabnik 4y ago
    I wrote about this a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678324
    - nikau 4y ago
      hmm not sure how this benefits over something like vxrail that's a supported turnkey solution, but I guess will wait for the 3rd party reviews to come out once it ships.
unixhero 4y ago
No dude. They are reimagining the firmware and ROMs on the mother board, and so on. I recommend looking further into it.
- nikau 4y ago
  I did have a read of their website, but it reads a bit like a kickstarter campaign with lots of vague statements and no details. At this stage I'm unsure what benefits it has over a blade server managed by traditional api like snmp.
  - mikedelago 4y ago
    This was my take as well; bold claims with minimal details or demos on their website.
    - steveklabnik 4y ago
      Expect more details in the future. Right now we're focused on building the product.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  This is sarcasm, right?
  - unixhero 4y ago
    It is not. I listened to their podcast and got my information from there, straight from Cantrill.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      It just doesn't seem to offer much, for all the grandiose claims. Who is going to pay a premium to have "reimagined" firmware and ROMs? Or yet another proprietary hypervisor? Or a stack that seems to be built around Solaris? It looks like a vanity or nostalgia project started by old Solaris folk, as far as I've seen.
      - steveklabnik 4y ago
        Here is a recent thread where someone asks the same questions, and gets a bunch of answers from various people: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039943
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        It's mostly the same sort of handwaving though, which I still don't understand. "anyone who has at least a rack full of Dell/HPE hardware" Big enterprise and government customers want white glove support, 10+ year continuity, ISV certification for their hardware. They will pay a premium, but they expect a premium and not in reimagined firmware, but really support. I can't see how Oxide could compete there or why it would want to. "If Oxide computers had existed when I was working on sorting out the infrastructure for in-country domestic payments at Visa, I'd have lobbied pretty hard to adopt them. Assembling basically the same thing from a bunch of random vendors and terribly integrated software was an infuriating, expensive process that only achieved great results because we invested the time and money into it that I'd have rather budget allocated to writing core payments & settlement applications." I'm not doubting this person's story, but perhaps he doesn't know exactly what Oxide would give either. This kind of thing is exactly what you can write a check to Dell or HPE for and they've already assembled those things with their boxes and their hardware partners they've got the firmware and software working, and the solution is all certified by SAP and Oracle and Microsoft and whoever else. But Visa didn't go that way, they instead paid the premium for experts on staff or contracted to do more of it in house. And they got a great result. Between the two, I'm having a hard time seeing where Oxide would fit. Pay a premium for the hardware solution and for the in house IT team?
soneil 4y ago
From listening to their podcasts / twitter spaces it sounds like they're building machines from the ground up. I get the impression they'd hate the analogy, but an apple style take on owning the hardware and software together. For a dip into how deep in the weeds they are, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuCkp3Zoo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuCkp3Zoo (they also do this as "oxide and friends" wherever you find podcasts, which is a nuisance to link to but works better)
- steveklabnik 4y ago
  For what it’s worth, I often use an Apple analogy. Sun works too. Both share that same idea: if you want to build a great computer, you should write software as well as build hardware.
zozbot234 4y ago
Not a blade. They're selling whole racks because that's the level that the hyperscalers work at, and Oxide are trying to bring the same class of systems to on-prem deployments. The closest comparison would be to something like modern mainframes, though the provided featureset might be subtly different. (For one thing, Oxide systems are ordinary x86 systems at the CPU architecture level; it's just "everything else" that's potentially custom.)
- nikau 4y ago
  Typical blade servers are around 10RU in size and have similar function of shared powersupplies, backplane, network etc. so 0xide is like a massive full rack sized blade enclosure so all blades can talk to each other over fast interconnects?
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  Hyperscalers do their own boards, chassis, BMCs, racks, etc., and can do their firmware (or modifications to it) though. Several are even getting into their own CPU designs. They don't want any boutique designs controlled by other companies there. And they don't want to pay premiums for it. They certainly don't want to run a proprietary hypervisor / host OS stack on it.
  - steveklabnik 4y ago
    You're assuming hyperscalars would be our target buyer. That's not the case; in fact, it's almost backwards. Hyperscalars build these things for themselves, but do not sell them to others. There are other organizations that could take advantage of this technology, but literally cannot buy it. That's where Oxide fits in.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      True, I thought that's what OP was implying. If not then my points don't necessarily apply of course.
      - 4y ago

Interesting to read some of the hype around 0xide, it seems like its just some software ontop of a blade system?

by nikau 4y ago

Interesting to read some of the hype around 0xide, it seems like its just some software ontop of a blade system?

Perhaps, but if their secret sauce produces a much better product, I'm not terribly concerned that the value-add is a software-based and not hardware-based.

nikau 4y ago
Yeah I'm not arguing for or against their product, just genuinely curious to know what differentiates them from existing blade servers hosting kubernetes or something.
- steveklabnik 4y ago
  I wrote about this a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678324
  - nikau 4y ago
    hmm not sure how this benefits over something like vxrail that's a supported turnkey solution, but I guess will wait for the 3rd party reviews to come out once it ships.

unixhero 4y ago

No dude. They are reimagining the firmware and ROMs on the mother board, and so on. I recommend looking further into it.

nikau 4y ago
I did have a read of their website, but it reads a bit like a kickstarter campaign with lots of vague statements and no details. At this stage I'm unsure what benefits it has over a blade server managed by traditional api like snmp.
- mikedelago 4y ago
  This was my take as well; bold claims with minimal details or demos on their website.
  - steveklabnik 4y ago
    Expect more details in the future. Right now we're focused on building the product.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
This is sarcasm, right?
- unixhero 4y ago
  It is not. I listened to their podcast and got my information from there, straight from Cantrill.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    It just doesn't seem to offer much, for all the grandiose claims. Who is going to pay a premium to have "reimagined" firmware and ROMs? Or yet another proprietary hypervisor? Or a stack that seems to be built around Solaris? It looks like a vanity or nostalgia project started by old Solaris folk, as far as I've seen.
    - steveklabnik 4y ago
      Here is a recent thread where someone asks the same questions, and gets a bunch of answers from various people: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039943
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        It's mostly the same sort of handwaving though, which I still don't understand. "anyone who has at least a rack full of Dell/HPE hardware" Big enterprise and government customers want white glove support, 10+ year continuity, ISV certification for their hardware. They will pay a premium, but they expect a premium and not in reimagined firmware, but really support. I can't see how Oxide could compete there or why it would want to. "If Oxide computers had existed when I was working on sorting out the infrastructure for in-country domestic payments at Visa, I'd have lobbied pretty hard to adopt them. Assembling basically the same thing from a bunch of random vendors and terribly integrated software was an infuriating, expensive process that only achieved great results because we invested the time and money into it that I'd have rather budget allocated to writing core payments & settlement applications." I'm not doubting this person's story, but perhaps he doesn't know exactly what Oxide would give either. This kind of thing is exactly what you can write a check to Dell or HPE for and they've already assembled those things with their boxes and their hardware partners they've got the firmware and software working, and the solution is all certified by SAP and Oracle and Microsoft and whoever else. But Visa didn't go that way, they instead paid the premium for experts on staff or contracted to do more of it in house. And they got a great result. Between the two, I'm having a hard time seeing where Oxide would fit. Pay a premium for the hardware solution and for the in house IT team?

soneil 4y ago

From listening to their podcasts / twitter spaces it sounds like they're building machines from the ground up. I get the impression they'd hate the analogy, but an apple style take on owning the hardware and software together. For a dip into how deep in the weeds they are, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuCkp3Zoo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCkuCkp3Zoo (they also do this as "oxide and friends" wherever you find podcasts, which is a nuisance to link to but works better)

steveklabnik 4y ago
For what it’s worth, I often use an Apple analogy. Sun works too. Both share that same idea: if you want to build a great computer, you should write software as well as build hardware.

zozbot234 4y ago

Not a blade. They're selling whole racks because that's the level that the hyperscalers work at, and Oxide are trying to bring the same class of systems to on-prem deployments. The closest comparison would be to something like modern mainframes, though the provided featureset might be subtly different. (For one thing, Oxide systems are ordinary x86 systems at the CPU architecture level; it's just "everything else" that's potentially custom.)

nikau 4y ago
Typical blade servers are around 10RU in size and have similar function of shared powersupplies, backplane, network etc. so 0xide is like a massive full rack sized blade enclosure so all blades can talk to each other over fast interconnects?
throwawaylinux 4y ago
Hyperscalers do their own boards, chassis, BMCs, racks, etc., and can do their firmware (or modifications to it) though. Several are even getting into their own CPU designs. They don't want any boutique designs controlled by other companies there. And they don't want to pay premiums for it. They certainly don't want to run a proprietary hypervisor / host OS stack on it.
- steveklabnik 4y ago
  You're assuming hyperscalars would be our target buyer. That's not the case; in fact, it's almost backwards. Hyperscalars build these things for themselves, but do not sell them to others. There are other organizations that could take advantage of this technology, but literally cannot buy it. That's where Oxide fits in.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    True, I thought that's what OP was implying. If not then my points don't necessarily apply of course.
    - 4y ago