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> So if you overhear someone saying they spanked their child you are saying you should call CPS and say that you suspect child abuse that should be investigated

> So if you overhear someone saying they spanked their child you are saying you should call CPS and say that you suspect child abuse that should be investigated? If that gives you reasonable suspicion that a child is being maltreated or abused, then yes. If you have reason to suspect that the child is in immediate danger from being hurt, then you should probably call the emergency services directly > No, this is not how it works when you know you are reporting people to a flawed system. See “swatting” or just generally how well received calling cops to intervene in a poor minority neighborhood goes. To my knowledge, swatting is fundamentally different as it involves both conscious deceit and a motive to harm. Something being a consequence of your actions is different from you having ethical responsibility for the outcome. I guess the question is how flawed? Is the CPS in the US really as dysfunctional as you seem to assert?

lelanthran 4y ago
> If that gives you reasonable suspicion that a child is being maltreated or abused, then yes. Someone saying they spanked their child is not reasonable suspicion of abuse. > Is the CPS in the US really as dysfunctional as you seem to assert? It's just as flawed in most countries, it's just that few people interact with it so they never get a sense of how out of proportion the CPS response is. Lets look at the scenario you painted: Mummy/Daddy smacks toddler firmly on the well-padded (diaper) bottom. You think that's abuse. So does the CPS. They remove the child "while they investigate", which could take anything from a week to a year in most countries (the investigation is done in most jurisdictions in tandem with the court proceedings arising from this, which take long[1]). You have to ask yourself whether the child is more harmed by the smack or by the removal from the parents, from the family unit, etc. There's no contention that the period in question is an important bonding period for the child (tons of research), prevention of which can cause lifelong issues. The argument of CPS in most western countries is that the smack is more damaging than breaking the childs bonds with the family. Many people don't believe that. I want to know whether you believe that the smack is more damaging to the child than the removal from the family. [1]The reason it takes so long is because someone claimed abuse, and that claim has to be investigated. Unlike the scientific process, where human testimony is the lowest form of evidence and usually ignored, in the legal system human testimony is the highest form of evidence.

lelanthran 4y ago

> If that gives you reasonable suspicion that a child is being maltreated or abused, then yes. Someone saying they spanked their child is not reasonable suspicion of abuse. > Is the CPS in the US really as dysfunctional as you seem to assert? It's just as flawed in most countries, it's just that few people interact with it so they never get a sense of how out of proportion the CPS response is. Lets look at the scenario you painted: Mummy/Daddy smacks toddler firmly on the well-padded (diaper) bottom. You think that's abuse. So does the CPS. They remove the child "while they investigate", which could take anything from a week to a year in most countries (the investigation is done in most jurisdictions in tandem with the court proceedings arising from this, which take long[1]). You have to ask yourself whether the child is more harmed by the smack or by the removal from the parents, from the family unit, etc. There's no contention that the period in question is an important bonding period for the child (tons of research), prevention of which can cause lifelong issues. The argument of CPS in most western countries is that the smack is more damaging than breaking the childs bonds with the family. Many people don't believe that. I want to know whether you believe that the smack is more damaging to the child than the removal from the family. [1]The reason it takes so long is because someone claimed abuse, and that claim has to be investigated. Unlike the scientific process, where human testimony is the lowest form of evidence and usually ignored, in the legal system human testimony is the highest form of evidence.