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> And yes, this is a dark part of EU history... Was blocking Hitler's propaganda during WW2 a dark side of Europe's history? This is war! You can't allow the

> And yes, this is a dark part of EU history... Was blocking Hitler's propaganda during WW2 a dark side of Europe's history? This is war! You can't allow the enemy to trick your population. In Romania, when we were occupied by Russia, there were just 400 communists in the country. Those people were put in charge of everything by the occupiers. If Ukraine is defeated, we'll be next, so it makes sense to not have any such people. A poll showed that only 75 % of Romanians blamed Russia for the war. 5 % blamed Ukraine, and the rest NATO/"the West"/etc. That means that an incredible number of our people are traitors, and we can't allow Russia to communicate to them.

331c8c71 4y ago
> That means that an incredible number of our people are traitors. I don't see any logical support for this conclusion even based on your narrative. > and we can't allow Russia to communicate to them. Obviously because YOU know better.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >I don't see any logical support for this conclusion even based on your narrative. The AUR party was very pro-Russian before the war, and now, after the war, the politics in Romanian are getting incredibly charged to the extent that if you were to legitimately criticize actions of NATO or the EU, regardless of what arguments you bring, you'd be automatically be classified as an AUR fan, a Kremlin supporter, a Russian shill, and a traitor that must be silenced or locked up. Basically any criticism towards NATO/EU is forbidden in Romania, on the basis that don't bite the hand that feeds you.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Again, imagine living in UK in 1943 and criticizing the allied forces. It’s the exact same situation, except now Russians are the nazis.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      It's a bit (read 'a lot') more complicated than that. You can't compare WW2 1943 UK/Europe to present day no matter how you spin it. There's valid criticism in how the EU and NATO handled not just the relationship with Russia and Ukraine, but many other issues from energy, mass immigration, COVID, fiscal policies to Brexit. There's nothing to gain for us by not self reflecting on the mistakes of our political leaders who are conveniently trying to push Russia as the scapegoat for everything wrong today, many issues they set up, before Russia even invaded. So yeah, 'Russia evil' and all that, but we should still keep our political leaders accountable for their mistakes and not let them get away with everything just because 'EU/NATO good' and if you point out issues then you're automatically a Putin shill like in WW2/cold war logic.
      - trasz 4y ago
        But of course - NATO has provoked Russia by allowing it to invade Crimea unpunished. If those HIMARS launchers got to Ukraine in 2014, we wouldn’t have the current war, and also probably wouldn’t have problems with gas supply, because Russia would already be pacified. Still, this isn’t a good moment to focus on criticizing NATO where there’s a vastly greater evil to defend against. And I definitely can compare this to Europe in 1943 - it’s the same ideology, forcing people to do the same kind of genocide, for the same reasons. Sure, Russians nazis only killed few dozen thousand people so far, but we know well what they intend to do - they are openly saying the purpose of the invasion is to destroy the Ukrainian nation. (Also note how ironic it is - Russia, which is neither a real nation not a proper state, is trying to destroy a vastly superior Ukraine.)
- wiseowise 4y ago
  > Obviously because YOU know better. Yes.
leosarev 4y ago
> That means that an incredible number of our people are traitors, and we can't allow Russia to communicate to them. Ironically, that's the narrative employed by Putin when our (Russian) government bans western press. I hope that in future neither you nor Putin will be allowed to censor facts that I see. Especially that media from both sides had been known to bend facts to support their narrative, and only way to navigate is to compare data from both sides. I see as the priviledge to be able to read in English, Russian and Ukrainian, to be able to read information from all sides.
thrown_22 4y ago

331c8c71 4y ago

> That means that an incredible number of our people are traitors. I don't see any logical support for this conclusion even based on your narrative. > and we can't allow Russia to communicate to them. Obviously because YOU know better.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>I don't see any logical support for this conclusion even based on your narrative. The AUR party was very pro-Russian before the war, and now, after the war, the politics in Romanian are getting incredibly charged to the extent that if you were to legitimately criticize actions of NATO or the EU, regardless of what arguments you bring, you'd be automatically be classified as an AUR fan, a Kremlin supporter, a Russian shill, and a traitor that must be silenced or locked up. Basically any criticism towards NATO/EU is forbidden in Romania, on the basis that don't bite the hand that feeds you.
- trasz 4y ago
  Again, imagine living in UK in 1943 and criticizing the allied forces. It’s the exact same situation, except now Russians are the nazis.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    It's a bit (read 'a lot') more complicated than that. You can't compare WW2 1943 UK/Europe to present day no matter how you spin it. There's valid criticism in how the EU and NATO handled not just the relationship with Russia and Ukraine, but many other issues from energy, mass immigration, COVID, fiscal policies to Brexit. There's nothing to gain for us by not self reflecting on the mistakes of our political leaders who are conveniently trying to push Russia as the scapegoat for everything wrong today, many issues they set up, before Russia even invaded. So yeah, 'Russia evil' and all that, but we should still keep our political leaders accountable for their mistakes and not let them get away with everything just because 'EU/NATO good' and if you point out issues then you're automatically a Putin shill like in WW2/cold war logic.
    - trasz 4y ago
      But of course - NATO has provoked Russia by allowing it to invade Crimea unpunished. If those HIMARS launchers got to Ukraine in 2014, we wouldn’t have the current war, and also probably wouldn’t have problems with gas supply, because Russia would already be pacified. Still, this isn’t a good moment to focus on criticizing NATO where there’s a vastly greater evil to defend against. And I definitely can compare this to Europe in 1943 - it’s the same ideology, forcing people to do the same kind of genocide, for the same reasons. Sure, Russians nazis only killed few dozen thousand people so far, but we know well what they intend to do - they are openly saying the purpose of the invasion is to destroy the Ukrainian nation. (Also note how ironic it is - Russia, which is neither a real nation not a proper state, is trying to destroy a vastly superior Ukraine.)
wiseowise 4y ago
> Obviously because YOU know better. Yes.

leosarev 4y ago

> That means that an incredible number of our people are traitors, and we can't allow Russia to communicate to them. Ironically, that's the narrative employed by Putin when our (Russian) government bans western press. I hope that in future neither you nor Putin will be allowed to censor facts that I see. Especially that media from both sides had been known to bend facts to support their narrative, and only way to navigate is to compare data from both sides. I see as the priviledge to be able to read in English, Russian and Ukrainian, to be able to read information from all sides.

thrown_22 4y ago