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> If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Because they want to capture the

by _kbh_ 4y ago

> If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Because they want to capture the people too. > Why have civilian deaths so obviously been minimized I didn’t knowing that lunching anti aircraft carrier weapons at shopping malls was considered “minimising civilian deaths”. Russia uses civilian deaths as a weapon of war. They also use forced deportation and filtration camps (which are used to torture and kill civilians) as a weapon of war. Russia in way minimises civilian deaths in fact they try and maximise them. > When you start from this outrageously false premise, despite an abundance of evidence suggesting other motives, you concede any chance of accurately diagnosing this conflict. https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM No one forced Russia to invade, no one forced Russia to rape, no one forced Russia to commit genocide. The decision to do and support these actions lies solely with Russia itself I’m kinda interested how you explain away the Russian embassy saying that legitimate Ukrainian POW’s should be executed?, war crime, but then again Russia seems to be trying to tick off every war crime it can.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pphysch 4y ago
Frankly, it's not even worth replying to this disingenuous goalpost-moving and "firehose of falsehoods" tactic. I've linked an informative resource above for anyone interested in factual debate on this topic.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > Frankly, it's not even worth replying to this disingenuous goalpost-moving and "firehose of falsehoods" tactic. I've linked an informative resource above for anyone interested in factual debate on this topic. You're not responding because there's no response. The Russians are killing, raping civilians and committing genocide in Ukraine. There is no reason for Russias war of aggression other then because they want to capture a country that they claim doesn't even exist. There's insurmountable evidence that the Russians aren't avoiding civilian casualties and that they are using them to inflict a terror campaign on Ukraine as a whole. There is no goalpost moving, there is only the truth. I will admit I haven't seen Russia's supporters accuse other people of using the "Firehose of Falsehood" before, but then again it was only a matter of time really as Russia and its supporters accuse others of doing what they/it does.
  - vogre 4y ago
    >committing genocide in Ukraine. False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Even raping of civilians is unproved. Ukraine even fired their human rights chief because of lie spreading https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680 https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissio... >There is no reason for Russias war of aggression other then because they want to capture a country that they claim doesn't even exist. False. The expansion of NATO to the east, 2014 anti-russian coup in Ukraine, the refusal to follow to Minsk agreements(guaranteed by western leaders, who failed them too) and militarization of Ukraine were the major reasons of the events. Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      > False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Despite popular belief genocide is not what the pro Russians want it to be, and Russias actions clearly fit within the UN's well defined definition of genocide. >> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >> Killing members of the group; >> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >> Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >> Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >> Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. We already have evidence of many of these individual things (of which any constitutes genocide). The Russians have already been forcibly deporting children and sending them to Russia, so point 5 is met. The Russians are on video castrating Ukrainians so we have point 4 met. The Russians have been indiscriminately bombing civilians so we have points 1 and 2 easily. > Even raping of civilians is unproved. I see you avoided the whole indiscriminate killing of civilians, of which Russians are already in jail for. It seems like you wouldn't be satisfied without video evidence of these crimes, but don't worry the Russians the will answer for their war crimes in time. > False. The expansion of NATO to the east, 2014 anti-russian coup in Ukraine, the refusal to follow to Minsk agreements(guaranteed by western leaders, who failed them too) and militarization of Ukraine were the major reasons of the events. Why does Ukraine have to abide by the Minks agreement but Russia is free to wilfully for years violate the Budapest agreement where Russia promised to not invade Ukraine of threaten its territorial borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes?. None of these are "reasons for these events", what all these are is Russias excuses to try and dominate another country and eliminate their statehood. > Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist. Here's a source from the literal Russian media. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 Here's a quote literally from Putin. `When it came to Ukraine, Putin flared up. Addressing Bush, he said: "You understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, and some, and significant, are donated by us!"` Everything you said is false, is true, strange that.

by _kbh_ 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pphysch 4y ago

Frankly, it's not even worth replying to this disingenuous goalpost-moving and "firehose of falsehoods" tactic. I've linked an informative resource above for anyone interested in factual debate on this topic.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> Frankly, it's not even worth replying to this disingenuous goalpost-moving and "firehose of falsehoods" tactic. I've linked an informative resource above for anyone interested in factual debate on this topic. You're not responding because there's no response. The Russians are killing, raping civilians and committing genocide in Ukraine. There is no reason for Russias war of aggression other then because they want to capture a country that they claim doesn't even exist. There's insurmountable evidence that the Russians aren't avoiding civilian casualties and that they are using them to inflict a terror campaign on Ukraine as a whole. There is no goalpost moving, there is only the truth. I will admit I haven't seen Russia's supporters accuse other people of using the "Firehose of Falsehood" before, but then again it was only a matter of time really as Russia and its supporters accuse others of doing what they/it does.
- vogre 4y ago
  >committing genocide in Ukraine. False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Even raping of civilians is unproved. Ukraine even fired their human rights chief because of lie spreading https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680 https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissio... >There is no reason for Russias war of aggression other then because they want to capture a country that they claim doesn't even exist. False. The expansion of NATO to the east, 2014 anti-russian coup in Ukraine, the refusal to follow to Minsk agreements(guaranteed by western leaders, who failed them too) and militarization of Ukraine were the major reasons of the events. Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > False. The current actions are not genocide by any means. Despite popular belief genocide is not what the pro Russians want it to be, and Russias actions clearly fit within the UN's well defined definition of genocide. >> In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: >> Killing members of the group; >> Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; >> Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; >> Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; >> Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. We already have evidence of many of these individual things (of which any constitutes genocide). The Russians have already been forcibly deporting children and sending them to Russia, so point 5 is met. The Russians are on video castrating Ukrainians so we have point 4 met. The Russians have been indiscriminately bombing civilians so we have points 1 and 2 easily. > Even raping of civilians is unproved. I see you avoided the whole indiscriminate killing of civilians, of which Russians are already in jail for. It seems like you wouldn't be satisfied without video evidence of these crimes, but don't worry the Russians the will answer for their war crimes in time. > False. The expansion of NATO to the east, 2014 anti-russian coup in Ukraine, the refusal to follow to Minsk agreements(guaranteed by western leaders, who failed them too) and militarization of Ukraine were the major reasons of the events. Why does Ukraine have to abide by the Minks agreement but Russia is free to wilfully for years violate the Budapest agreement where Russia promised to not invade Ukraine of threaten its territorial borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes?. None of these are "reasons for these events", what all these are is Russias excuses to try and dominate another country and eliminate their statehood. > Another false: Putin never claimed Ukraine doesn't exist. Here's a source from the literal Russian media. https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/877224 Here's a quote literally from Putin. `When it came to Ukraine, Putin flared up. Addressing Bush, he said: "You understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, and some, and significant, are donated by us!"` Everything you said is false, is true, strange that.