3 ms·

The essay she got the phrase from is https://web.archive.org/web/20160307234335/http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-coming-of-the-super-predators/article/8160 htt

by btilly 4y ago

The essay she got the phrase from is https://web.archive.org/web/20160307234335/http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-coming-of-the-super-predators/article/8160 https://web.archive.org/web/20160307234335/http://www.weekly.... Associating the phrase "predator" specifically with black and hispanic criminals was already well-established in politics. Particularly because of the the Willie Horton ad from 1988. I absolutely believed both then and now that she intended it as a racial comment. And her only reasonable defense would have been, "...but not ALL blacks..." However the policies that her husband pursued lead to the largest increase in blacks behind bars in history to that point, and had the effect of devastating black communities. So even that excuse would be thin. (Note, Bill Clinton is also the one who flew home during the 1992 primary campaign to witness the execution of a mentally retarded black man. About which he said, "Nobody can accuse me of being soft on crime.")

sarchertech 4y ago
I’m not going to argue that it’s impossible that she was using the term as a dog whistle. But people have been referring to criminals of every race as predators well before 1988 and they have continued doing to this day. If you look at usage of the word predator, my bet is it is associated with generic criminals (particularly sexual criminals) far more frequently than it’s deliberately used as a dog whistle. When Clinton made this speech, it aired on C-Span and would have been forgotten but for opposition research. I think it’s very unlikely, she deliberately chose the word to send out a dog whistle to racists who happen to be watching the ostensibly liberal President’s wife on C-Span. I think the more likely explanation is that a speech writer thought it sounded punchy because they’d heard it being used, and she didn’t think twice about using the term to refer to gang members. That doesn’t mean that many uses of the word don’t have racist meanings. Or that it’s impossible that Clinton used it with racists invent. It does mean that it’s a big logical leap to say: Some racists refer to young Black criminals as predators, and Hilary Clinton uses the word to refer the superset of young gang members, therefore Hilary Clinton deliberately and with racist intent used the word specifically to refer to young Black gang members. Particularly to the level of confidence that you’re quoting her as saying “black super predators”. Notably Bill Clinton is never on record as having used the word, and he is the one who met with the guy who coined it. If he inteneded to co-opt the word to use as a racist dog whistle, why did he never use it himself? And why did his wife only use it the one time?
- btilly 4y ago
  Do you have a source for it being opposition research? As far as I can tell, https://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/26/whichhillary_blacklivesmatter_activist_demands_apology_from https://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/26/whichhillary_blackliv... describes the event where it resurfaced. Now maybe the activist had the information planted. Maybe not. But I've disliked her since meeting her in 1994 (at Dartmouth College, for a speech on health care). Disliked her more when she ran for Congress. Disliked her more again when I donated to Barack Obama's campaign to make sure she didn't become President in 2008. Disliked everything that I heard of her as part of Obama's cabinet. And also disliked her in 2016. And as context, here is my bias. I correctly predicted what Trump would be, but could not bring myself to support Hillary because I don't know which I consider worse. Even today, despite the Jan 6 events, I'm not sure that the worse candidate won in 2016. If Trump gets back in office and manages to dismantle Democracy, then Trump was in retrospect worse. But if he fails at take 2 like a buffoon should, then I prefer how things actually turned out over Hillary's blend of hypocritical incompetence.

by btilly 4y ago

sarchertech 4y ago

I’m not going to argue that it’s impossible that she was using the term as a dog whistle. But people have been referring to criminals of every race as predators well before 1988 and they have continued doing to this day. If you look at usage of the word predator, my bet is it is associated with generic criminals (particularly sexual criminals) far more frequently than it’s deliberately used as a dog whistle. When Clinton made this speech, it aired on C-Span and would have been forgotten but for opposition research. I think it’s very unlikely, she deliberately chose the word to send out a dog whistle to racists who happen to be watching the ostensibly liberal President’s wife on C-Span. I think the more likely explanation is that a speech writer thought it sounded punchy because they’d heard it being used, and she didn’t think twice about using the term to refer to gang members. That doesn’t mean that many uses of the word don’t have racist meanings. Or that it’s impossible that Clinton used it with racists invent. It does mean that it’s a big logical leap to say: Some racists refer to young Black criminals as predators, and Hilary Clinton uses the word to refer the superset of young gang members, therefore Hilary Clinton deliberately and with racist intent used the word specifically to refer to young Black gang members. Particularly to the level of confidence that you’re quoting her as saying “black super predators”. Notably Bill Clinton is never on record as having used the word, and he is the one who met with the guy who coined it. If he inteneded to co-opt the word to use as a racist dog whistle, why did he never use it himself? And why did his wife only use it the one time?

btilly 4y ago
Do you have a source for it being opposition research? As far as I can tell, https://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/26/whichhillary_blacklivesmatter_activist_demands_apology_from https://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/26/whichhillary_blackliv... describes the event where it resurfaced. Now maybe the activist had the information planted. Maybe not. But I've disliked her since meeting her in 1994 (at Dartmouth College, for a speech on health care). Disliked her more when she ran for Congress. Disliked her more again when I donated to Barack Obama's campaign to make sure she didn't become President in 2008. Disliked everything that I heard of her as part of Obama's cabinet. And also disliked her in 2016. And as context, here is my bias. I correctly predicted what Trump would be, but could not bring myself to support Hillary because I don't know which I consider worse. Even today, despite the Jan 6 events, I'm not sure that the worse candidate won in 2016. If Trump gets back in office and manages to dismantle Democracy, then Trump was in retrospect worse. But if he fails at take 2 like a buffoon should, then I prefer how things actually turned out over Hillary's blend of hypocritical incompetence.