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You can’t make generalisations about “victims” like that. I’m sure there are victims of crime who don’t care whether their perpetrators are punished or not, but

You can’t make generalisations about “victims” like that. I’m sure there are victims of crime who don’t care whether their perpetrators are punished or not, but ensuring that a criminal is sufficiently punished for their crimes is a very important element of the justice system. This is plainly obvious, and whether perpetrators are being sufficiently punished is routinely the subject of public controversies. This component of the justice system is entirely about revenge. For every “I just want to move on with my life” victim you can find, there’ll be a dozen court rooms cheering an excessively long sentence, or “I hope you rot in jail” victim impact statements.

XorNot 4y ago
You're simply making a generalization in the opposite direction, and since neither of us is presenting hard statistics you have no special claim here. Perpetrators being insufficiently punished is the subject of controversy because of the nature of the crime: it is not unreasonable to think that someone who murders a person should never be let back out into the community (because they have shown they're a clear and present danger to anyone). The same basic problem exists with rapists: victims fear that the rapist will be released, but more importantly fear that they will either return and re-offend, or re-offend anyway - again, public safety. In both these situations, the actual goal being expressed is "this person makes me feel unsafe, if they are somewhere they literally cannot ever get near to me, then I would feel safe - and so that period of time should be as long as possible". A rapist in jail for 15 years is 15 years they cannot possibly commit another crime against the victim or the community (ignoring the grotesque situation prisons have in that regard as a separate but very valid issue). Controversies over jail time exist due to deficiencies and lack of control over actual safety concerns, and where they do not they exist as absurdities: i.e. murder - permanent deprivation of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - somehow being less seriously punished then drug possession - literally no possible impact to anyone except the possessor, and maybe some handwavy indirects surrounding the drug trade.
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  I’m not making generalizations at all. You are claiming to have knowledge of the motives of all victims of crime. I am claiming that some victims of crime, as well as some other 3rd party members of society, have a particular motive some of the time, as evidenced by all of the occasions when it becomes a matter of public controversy. I could go and find examples of this, but that would just be a waste of my time, because if you are not prepared to accept that such perfectly obvious events take place every day, then you’re clearly not actually trying to discuss the topic.

XorNot 4y ago

You're simply making a generalization in the opposite direction, and since neither of us is presenting hard statistics you have no special claim here. Perpetrators being insufficiently punished is the subject of controversy because of the nature of the crime: it is not unreasonable to think that someone who murders a person should never be let back out into the community (because they have shown they're a clear and present danger to anyone). The same basic problem exists with rapists: victims fear that the rapist will be released, but more importantly fear that they will either return and re-offend, or re-offend anyway - again, public safety. In both these situations, the actual goal being expressed is "this person makes me feel unsafe, if they are somewhere they literally cannot ever get near to me, then I would feel safe - and so that period of time should be as long as possible". A rapist in jail for 15 years is 15 years they cannot possibly commit another crime against the victim or the community (ignoring the grotesque situation prisons have in that regard as a separate but very valid issue). Controversies over jail time exist due to deficiencies and lack of control over actual safety concerns, and where they do not they exist as absurdities: i.e. murder - permanent deprivation of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - somehow being less seriously punished then drug possession - literally no possible impact to anyone except the possessor, and maybe some handwavy indirects surrounding the drug trade.

AmericanChopper 4y ago
I’m not making generalizations at all. You are claiming to have knowledge of the motives of all victims of crime. I am claiming that some victims of crime, as well as some other 3rd party members of society, have a particular motive some of the time, as evidenced by all of the occasions when it becomes a matter of public controversy. I could go and find examples of this, but that would just be a waste of my time, because if you are not prepared to accept that such perfectly obvious events take place every day, then you’re clearly not actually trying to discuss the topic.