> the consensus of the community seems to be that there's no need for a rails-like framework for Clojure Maybe (I’m not really sure how you judge community con

> the consensus of the community seems to be that there's no need for a rails-like framework for Clojure Maybe (I’m not really sure how you judge community consensus) but, tangibly, the problem of libraries being old, broken and unmaintained while people go off and build new things is real. It’s also undeniable that (see https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/w9roqv/is_there_anything_in_clojure_comparable_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/w9roqv/is_there_an... for example) that there are tonne of half baked efforts in the web space. Maybe they’re unrelated. There are lots of argument you could make; Clojure has simultaneously tried to distance itself from the JVM and but also eat the cake of “just use the Java library for that”. I personally think the “you don’t need to use the Java runtime” has seen a de facto split in the ecosystem which is also partially to blame. Kotlin has been very successful at what is basically the same model, and it is different how? Stronger guiding principles? Found a silver bullet use case in android apps? Benefit of strongly opinionated steering from jetbrains? I don’t think is technically more sophisticated than clojure, but it’s definitely more successful and popular. I think we have to face the facts; clojure is flat if not already in decline. I know, usage goes up every year in the survey, but the ecosystem isn’t healthy. Especially in the web space. > Most of Clojurians are satisfied with what we have in the Web front Most? Geez. I think that’s a big call. I literally only ever hear people complain about this. I am not satisfied by the current state of affairs. :/