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Failing to distinguish the moral difference between actions like the German Imperialism and literal holocaust i.e. murdering millions of people in chambers, and

Failing to distinguish the moral difference between actions like the German Imperialism and literal holocaust i.e. murdering millions of people in chambers, and the Allied liberation of the Continent - and especially gaslighting those that point out that obvious difference between the two by calling them 'children' and 'war pigs' - has to be one of the most repulsive things one can possibly do in writing, so no, f&&k you. This whataboutism is exactly why RT is currently suppressed: the Russians have painted Ukrainians as a 'non people' who do not have an identity and do not deserve to exist, with rampant cultural Nazism embedded in the society, in order to justify their invasion, conquest, mass murder - and they want to the world to see it this way as well. A large swath, possibly the majority of Russians, believe in this incredulous repulsive lie, and are happy to see Ukranian citizens mass killed, just hop on Telegram to see what is in 2022, something you didn't believe modern people would ever say. This is the effect of RT and 'Russia One' TV, where every day Russians are subjected to hours and hours of beyond pale insanity. Literally on this day, Russians have murdered about 50 prisoners near Donetsk by blowing up a prison camp, while blaming their repulsive crimes on Ukrainians themselves. This is likely to destroy evidence of a crime committed just yesterday, whereby Russians cut off the testicles of a Ukranian soldier, put them in his mouth, shot him, tied him to a car and dragged him through the streets. [1] Literally on this day, on Russia One, ex-Russian General and Duma member is calling for Russia to 'bomb Berlin' into the Dust - in front of millions of Russians. Every few days they yell about 'Nuking London and the entire UK'. They do this for three hours every day, on the 'primary' TV Channel, of course state-backed. [2] From an 'information perspective', this matters, because apparently, about 10-20% of people 'in the West' will just 'believe' these utterly repulsive lies (akin to Hitler blaming the death of the Jews on the 'invading Americans') - which is why we suppress this information. Thousands of random Telegrammers (such as Олег Царёв - follow the links in his feed) perpetuate horrific propaganda, in some ways much worse than anything apparently the Nazis were doing at least in public, for millions of Russians to be elated. Again, obviously a concern about how information is propagated - it elicits people into a bloodthirsty fervour. Surely Hitler had a few legit complaints about the Versailles agreement, fair enough, but we still would not have wanted to broadcast his speeches live to the entire world in the name of 'free expression'. And so, don't want this repulsive Russian ultra-fascism on our airwaves. If someone really wants to find it - they can. Moral absolution is never black and white, it's often close enough. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/29/video-appears-to-show-russian-soldier-castrating-ukrainian-prisoner https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/29/video-appears-... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wbxhze/general_of_the_russian_armed_forces_and_member_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/wbxhze/general_of_...

pphysch 4y ago
You can have principled and ethical standards for judging historical events and characters without regressing to the juvenile act of moralizing. Western establishment media constantly moralizes the Ukraine conflict because the reality is much more nuanced and not aligned with Washington's foreign policy goals in the region. It's much easier to say "Putin bad" than deal with the decades of ugliness involving the Budapest Memorandum, Orange Revolution, Pinchuk's YES campaign, Kolomoyskyi's propaganda drive, Maidan coup, Sevestapol, etc. and Washington's often direct involvement in all of the above.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > It's much easier to say "Putin bad" than deal with the decades of ugliness involving the Budapest Memorandum, Orange Revolution, Pinchuk's YES campaign, Kolomoyskyi's propaganda drive, Maidan coup, Sevestapol, etc. and Washington's often direct involvement in all of the above. I dunno it’s kinda easy to say that the guy commanding his army to exterminate an entire country is “bad”. This is less moralising and more that the world has decided maybe Russia shouldn’t be raping Ukrainians?, executing citizens?, committing genocide?. There’s no amount of meddling that should make the above justifiable. This is evidenced by Russia constantly changing their reasons for invading, they know there’s no valid reason.
  - pphysch 4y ago
    > the guy commanding his army to exterminate an entire country is “bad” If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Why have civilian deaths so obviously been minimized? When you start from this outrageously false premise, despite an abundance of evidence suggesting other motives, you concede any chance of accurately diagnosing this conflict. https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      > If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Because they want to capture the people too. > Why have civilian deaths so obviously been minimized I didn’t knowing that lunching anti aircraft carrier weapons at shopping malls was considered “minimising civilian deaths”. Russia uses civilian deaths as a weapon of war. They also use forced deportation and filtration camps (which are used to torture and kill civilians) as a weapon of war. Russia in way minimises civilian deaths in fact they try and maximise them. > When you start from this outrageously false premise, despite an abundance of evidence suggesting other motives, you concede any chance of accurately diagnosing this conflict. https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM No one forced Russia to invade, no one forced Russia to rape, no one forced Russia to commit genocide. The decision to do and support these actions lies solely with Russia itself I’m kinda interested how you explain away the Russian embassy saying that legitimate Ukrainian POW’s should be executed?, war crime, but then again Russia seems to be trying to tick off every war crime it can.

pphysch 4y ago

You can have principled and ethical standards for judging historical events and characters without regressing to the juvenile act of moralizing. Western establishment media constantly moralizes the Ukraine conflict because the reality is much more nuanced and not aligned with Washington's foreign policy goals in the region. It's much easier to say "Putin bad" than deal with the decades of ugliness involving the Budapest Memorandum, Orange Revolution, Pinchuk's YES campaign, Kolomoyskyi's propaganda drive, Maidan coup, Sevestapol, etc. and Washington's often direct involvement in all of the above.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> It's much easier to say "Putin bad" than deal with the decades of ugliness involving the Budapest Memorandum, Orange Revolution, Pinchuk's YES campaign, Kolomoyskyi's propaganda drive, Maidan coup, Sevestapol, etc. and Washington's often direct involvement in all of the above. I dunno it’s kinda easy to say that the guy commanding his army to exterminate an entire country is “bad”. This is less moralising and more that the world has decided maybe Russia shouldn’t be raping Ukrainians?, executing citizens?, committing genocide?. There’s no amount of meddling that should make the above justifiable. This is evidenced by Russia constantly changing their reasons for invading, they know there’s no valid reason.
- pphysch 4y ago
  > the guy commanding his army to exterminate an entire country is “bad” If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Why have civilian deaths so obviously been minimized? When you start from this outrageously false premise, despite an abundance of evidence suggesting other motives, you concede any chance of accurately diagnosing this conflict. https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > If this were true, why did Moscow not simply cull the entire population of Kiev with a thermobaric carpet bombing on day 1? Because they want to capture the people too. > Why have civilian deaths so obviously been minimized I didn’t knowing that lunching anti aircraft carrier weapons at shopping malls was considered “minimising civilian deaths”. Russia uses civilian deaths as a weapon of war. They also use forced deportation and filtration camps (which are used to torture and kill civilians) as a weapon of war. Russia in way minimises civilian deaths in fact they try and maximise them. > When you start from this outrageously false premise, despite an abundance of evidence suggesting other motives, you concede any chance of accurately diagnosing this conflict. https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM https://youtu.be/qciVozNtCDM No one forced Russia to invade, no one forced Russia to rape, no one forced Russia to commit genocide. The decision to do and support these actions lies solely with Russia itself I’m kinda interested how you explain away the Russian embassy saying that legitimate Ukrainian POW’s should be executed?, war crime, but then again Russia seems to be trying to tick off every war crime it can.